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 Post subject: Re: New baby: Orion
PostPosted: Sat Oct 31, 2015 3:56 pm 
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Senior Bengal
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Sherry wrote:
The F generation is not on any papers. You need a pedigree and research back through the million cats to the Asian Leopard cat. It took me 3 months to do Raiden's entire pedigree. It's a passion of mine -- finding F generations. I'd be happy to research Orion -- as long as the parents and grandparents, etc. are in the pedigree website.


Thanks Sherry! I checked once, and I don't think they were on there. Judith from Awagati is retired now. But his mom is Awagati Samsara, and dad is Awagati Pants on Fire. We will get the 5-gen pedigree to bridge it back further than his parents.

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~*~Holly~*~

Orion ~ Light Gold Black Rosetted Bengal, born 5/19/15
Apollo ~ Tuxedo Marbled Tabby, born 1/7/12


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 Post subject: Re: New baby: Orion
PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 4:53 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
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I got the 5-generation when I registered Raiden (his previous owner never had). I had to fill in several of the cats myself so that I could get the entire pedigree. Once you get past the 4 other generations -- the cats are almost always in there. It's a fairly easy process to do it, but I'm happy to help in any way that I can. Awagati has a lot of their cats in the pedigree database, so it may be as simple as putting in the parents or grandparents and you can go from there. All of the early generation bengals are listed. It is so interesting to see all the cats that make up your cat's pedigree -- and all the ALC's. Raiden has five different ones. I'm getting excited just thinking about Orion's.


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 Post subject: Re: New baby: Orion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 4:49 am 
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Orion is in the database now, and he is an F7. I want to say there were 5 or 6 ALC's in his pedigree when I did the research, but that was about a year ago so I'm hazy on it.

I'll have to post a few updated photos next time I'm on the computer.

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~*~Holly~*~

Orion ~ Light Gold Black Rosetted Bengal, born 5/19/15
Apollo ~ Tuxedo Marbled Tabby, born 1/7/12


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 Post subject: Re: New baby: Orion
PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:32 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
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I'm sure this is what you found:

Cat AWAGATI ORION
Color BROWN (BLACK) SPOTTED TABBY
Sex Male
Date of Birth 2015-05-19
Breed BENGAL

Sire AWAGATI PANTS ON FIRE
Dam AWAGATI SAMSARA

COI: Total: 34.5% (inbreeding)

ALCs Sire F12 (max. F24) CENTERWALL ASIAN LEOPARD CATS 14312 times
F10 (max. F19) BAGHARA - SERGURA KHAN OF KENT 134 times
F12 ART DECO OF LIONSMOUNTAIN 5 times
F13 (max. F20) BONZAI 28 times
F11 (max. F15) KABUKI OF MILLWOOD 3 times
F11 PHANTOM 1 times
F7 TARO OF BUNDAS 1 times

ALCs Dam F13 (max. F27) CENTERWALL ASIAN LEOPARD CATS 41317 times
F11 (max. F22) BAGHARA - SERGURA KHAN OF KENT 390 times
F14 (max. F22) BONZAI 113 times
F13 (max. F15) ART DECO OF LIONSMOUNTAIN 6 times
F12 (max. F17) KABUKI OF MILLWOOD 15 times
F12 (max. F13) PHANTOM 2 times
F17 STONEY OF HATFIELD ALC 1 times
F8 RAJAH SINGH OF JUNGLESONG 1 times
F8 TARO OF BUNDAS 1 times

Total ALC Percent F7 Cat with ~15.0244% (percentage of ALC blood)
Lastupdate 2017-03-12

Half Sibling (Sire) List (1)


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 Post subject: Re: New baby: Orion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:08 am 
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Senior Bengal
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Posts: 89
Sherry wrote:
I'm sure this is what you found:

Cat AWAGATI ORION
Color BROWN (BLACK) SPOTTED TABBY
Sex Male
Date of Birth 2015-05-19
Breed BENGAL

Sire AWAGATI PANTS ON FIRE
Dam AWAGATI SAMSARA

COI: Total: 34.5% (inbreeding)

ALCs Sire F12 (max. F24) CENTERWALL ASIAN LEOPARD CATS 14312 times
F10 (max. F19) BAGHARA - SERGURA KHAN OF KENT 134 times
F12 ART DECO OF LIONSMOUNTAIN 5 times
F13 (max. F20) BONZAI 28 times
F11 (max. F15) KABUKI OF MILLWOOD 3 times
F11 PHANTOM 1 times
F7 TARO OF BUNDAS 1 times

ALCs Dam F13 (max. F27) CENTERWALL ASIAN LEOPARD CATS 41317 times
F11 (max. F22) BAGHARA - SERGURA KHAN OF KENT 390 times
F14 (max. F22) BONZAI 113 times
F13 (max. F15) ART DECO OF LIONSMOUNTAIN 6 times
F12 (max. F17) KABUKI OF MILLWOOD 15 times
F12 (max. F13) PHANTOM 2 times
F17 STONEY OF HATFIELD ALC 1 times
F8 RAJAH SINGH OF JUNGLESONG 1 times
F8 TARO OF BUNDAS 1 times

Total ALC Percent F7 Cat with ~15.0244% (percentage of ALC blood)
Lastupdate 2017-03-12

Half Sibling (Sire) List (1)


Well I saw some of these details back when I put him in, by it wasn't displayed this way... how did you find it summarized like that?

I'm also not sure what the ALC Sires/Dams lists mean...is that saying he had 9 female ALCs and 7 male ALCs in his bloodline? But the most recent ALCs showed up 7 generations before him?
What about the inbreeding %? How does that compare to other bengals?

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~*~Holly~*~

Orion ~ Light Gold Black Rosetted Bengal, born 5/19/15
Apollo ~ Tuxedo Marbled Tabby, born 1/7/12


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 Post subject: Re: New baby: Orion
PostPosted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 7:12 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8146
The information I posted is from http://www.bengal-data.com. Bengalpedigrees.com does not have all of this information.

Every bengal has multiple ALCs in their pedigree. When you start back from 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grand parents, etc., you can end up with hundreds of different cats in the pedigree. When it come to Orion, yes, he has 9 ALCs from the dam side and 7 from the sire side. Many are the same. What Bengal Data does is take every cat in Orion's pedigree back to the ALC. They post the F generation for each of the ALCs and, naturally, the lowest generation shown is the one for your cat. Taro of Bundas is the ALC that makes your Orion an F7. You always use the shortest route back to the ALC.

As for the co-efficiency inbreeding -- It is a complicated formula. Unfortunately, the bengal breed started with a very limited pool of cats. The imbreeding started with Jean Mill. She had to breed Millwood Destiny (F3) back with his mother, Millwood Praline (F2).

For Orion, this is what I found:

COI Calculation for AWAGATI ORION
Total COI is: 34.5%
common: 18 possible: 62 available: 62 effective: 44 => AVK: 29.032%
COI@5 Gens => 14.258%
8.008% through AWAGATI ROSE TATOO (1 path)
6.250% through AMANTRA CHIAROSCURO (1 path)

What I'm interpreting is there is 14.258% inbreeding in the last five generations. Is this good or bad? I don't know. My Raiden has 25% co-efficiency with 0% in the previous five generations. Meaning, no cat repeats within the 64 cats.

Most bengal owners are not interested in this information. Bengal breeders should be. I have seen TICA pedigrees where the cats are bred over and over again on the sire and the dam side. This is not good for the breed and health of these cats.


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 Post subject: Re: New baby: Orion
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 7:21 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:03 pm
Posts: 69
Sherry wrote:
The information I posted is from http://www.bengal-data.com. Bengalpedigrees.com does not have all of this information.



The website http://www.bengal-data.com seems to be down.

Any other way to search for pedigree history? I'm trying to find one for my new kitten's father.
Name is: JumperTW Faustine. TICA no.: SBT 011815 006.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.

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https://www.instagram.com/xanderbengal/


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 Post subject: Re: New baby: Orion
PostPosted: Wed May 10, 2017 4:25 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8146
Bengal-Data is up and running based on my computer. Henning is getting ready to relaunch the website with 68,000 bengals. I only have just under 43,000 in mine. Note, I cannot find anything online on JumperTW Faustine. None of the databases have any info on him. Do you have a full pedigree (3 or 5 generation?). That would definitely help.


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 Post subject: Re: New baby: Orion
PostPosted: Thu May 11, 2017 3:12 am 
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Senior Bengal

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:03 pm
Posts: 69
Sherry wrote:
Bengal-Data is up and running based on my computer. Henning is getting ready to relaunch the website with 68,000 bengals. I only have just under 43,000 in mine. Note, I cannot find anything online on JumperTW Faustine. None of the databases have any info on him. Do you have a full pedigree (3 or 5 generation?). That would definitely help.


Just found out its a female name so is his mom, lol. Unfortunately, I not have the full pedigree info within 5 generations. Was told by breedet that my kitty's parents is several generations after the 5th one and the cert only shows the last 5. Her DOB is 18 Jan 2015, which shouldn't be too far off. Is such tracing still possible?

I intend to get the Tica cert which will only be issued after I bring the kitty for sterilisation which is in 3-4 mths time. and considering to bring him for show too. Perhaps them I can get more info.

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https://www.instagram.com/xanderbengal/


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 Post subject: Re: New baby: Orion
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:57 pm 
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Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2017 10:11 pm
Posts: 28
Wow he's gorgeous!!! Love the contrasting colors! My girls colors are similar, but she's so little still I can't tell what her spots are gonna do yet lol!


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