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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:45 pm 
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Lucy's recent trip to the vet for a booster and stool labs was very informative. I was surprised to see our long ago vet was going to examine Lucy. He's an older fellow that looks like Dr. Marcus Welby from the old TV series in the states. First thing he asked me was if I was sure about her birth date, as she is pretty small for her age (2.24 pounds at ten and a half weeks). My immediate response was "I hope its correct, the folks on the forum are already beating me up cause the breeder left her go at 8 weeks, LOL!

Anyway, I am relieved to tell you she is in excellent health, she did put on a pound in 2 weeks, her eye is clear (no more drainage, or drops!), a second vet saying there is no murmur, and the labs just came back saying she is parasite free.

I have to take her back in 2 weeks to begin her rabies series. They also asked (optional test) if I wanted to have her tested for leukemia and aides. Money is tight right now so I'm not sure what to do, but I should ask how much $$$. Any opinions on these tests?

He strongly advised against her wearing a collar since she will be an indoor cat. He said cats that get a collar stuck on something totally freak out to the point of serious or fatal neck injuries- I couldn't live with that! After reading articles and watching videos, I've decided not to even do leash training, as I fear this will begin a love affair with the outside world.

Now for the heavy topic; spaying! He also doubled-down on waiting until she is six months. I pushed for five, and he would do it, but he brought up her small size and recommended six. I brought up the 8 week scenario and he rolled his eyes. He said that derives from a rescue shelter philosophy, who's goal (rightfully so) is to sterilize the cat. Oh, you get a sterilized cat, but if the slightest membrane is left behind, the cat will "think" it is in heat, and go through the same behavior. That would be bad.

I'm sure this is a very controversial subject. Maybe different views are caused by young vs. old vets, or shelters vs. the market place. I don't know, I'm thinking five and a half months, how's that for a compromise!

I was successful trimming Lucy's talons and that certainly makes a difference. My arms and legs are actually starting to heal :smile:

Rich


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 8:52 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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*Shrug* I've never really read anything definitive about one way being better. My two bengals got spayed at 6 months, Neytiri got taken care of by the breeder prior to coming home to me at 12-13 weeks or so. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer except to say that:

1. If I ever get another purebred kitten again, having a breeder offer to take care of it for me prior to rehoming is BIG! (in so many ways...)
2. Seeing as your vet is the one doing the procedure, and you apparently trust him (as he's still your vet) then might as well go along with what he says... (that's my philosophy anyway).

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:42 pm 
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brianj12 wrote:
1. If I ever get another purebred kitten again, having a breeder offer to take care of it for me prior to rehoming is BIG! (in so many ways...)


If I understand you Brian, you would prefer for the breeder take care of the neutering process prior to picking up the cat. Could you explain some of the ways doing this would be beneficial?

Thanks,
Rich


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:10 pm 
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Rich, it sounds as if you have a very competent vet! If he thinks six months is the optimum time frame to spay Lucy, then go with that and hope she doesn't hit a heat cycle prior! As for testing for FeLV and FIV, it's up to you. I'm guessing it is highly unlikely she would have either. There is a vaccine for FeLV but if she will be an indoor cat with no exposure to an infected outdoor cat, then that would be fine. I believe you can wait on making any decision. I know vets want to give you all the options -- but in the end, it's up to you and your kitty. Let's see how she is doing at 6 months when she is spayed. Until then ... calm down and relax! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: . Happy to hear the talon clipping went well! :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 4:45 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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RichF wrote:
brianj12 wrote:
1. If I ever get another purebred kitten again, having a breeder offer to take care of it for me prior to rehoming is BIG! (in so many ways...)


If I understand you Brian, you would prefer for the breeder take care of the neutering process prior to picking up the cat. Could you explain some of the ways doing this would be beneficial?

Thanks,
Rich


1. Cost. I think my vet charged me like $500-$600 per cat when I got my bengals neutered. Not really surprising when you consider that it's a surgery and they want to do blood tests etc before the surgery, then they spend the whole day there. I think breeders can get it done a lot cheaper. But if I'm responsible for it, they would definitely be going to my vet and no corners would be cut.

2. Drama and Stress. Even though it's not "major surgery", it's still a huge ordeal, especially the after-care. Some vets will want them to wear "cone of shame", some will want return trips to the vet to make sure they are ok or to take out stitches. And then there's the "keep them calm, and only light excercise blah blah blah", which isn't actually possible short of putting them in a cage for a week. And if you have other cats, then there is all the drama of them rejecting the ones coming back from the vet because they reek of vet smells. And of course, you worry all day that something could go wrong, either during or after surgery.

3. The "Laziness Factor" + Bonding. It's just not a fun thing to go through as an owner. And at the end of the day your cats resent you for it. YOU are the bad-guy in this! And for some period of time afterwards, every time you approach your cat(s) you can see it in their eyes that they are wondering: "is he coming to grab me and stuff me in a carrier"?.

4. I think one reason (aside from just being good to their customers) some breeders offer spaying (or even insist on spaying) is that they want to enforce that their "pet quality" kittens don't end up as part of a breeding program somewhere, and/or that when someone does buy a kitten from them with the intent to breed them, they pay an appropriate amount for such a kitten. This is just conjecture.

5. There's no drama around getting your cat's "papers". A lot of breeders have a policy where they'll send you the cat's papers if and when you get your cat neutered. So this of course can cause all kinds of drama. You proving to them that you've done it, them responding (or not) etc. This makes it nice and easy. No excuses for not getting your papers pretty much immediately if they are going to spay your cat.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 6:36 pm 
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Thanks Sherry and Brian for your responses. That certainly is good news about the testing. We only have indoor Lucy and have no plans on being a two cat family. Brian's clarification seems very logical. I dread the day I have to put Lucy in the carrier for her spay. There is such a growing bond day by day for my wife and me from Lucy. :idea: Maybe I can pretend to be sick that day and make my wife take her!

Rich


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 7:49 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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try to get her used to the carrier some time ahead. I used to have a moggie that hated the carrier. There was no safe way (for me or for him) to put him in it. But then I adopted him at the age of around 3 years so I don't know what experience/memories he could have had.
With my current two monsters, it's a different story altogether. They never had a problem with the carrier throughout their trips to the vet for shots for the first couple of months. Since I've bought a bigger one a while ago they see is as a part of the status quo (in fact, it's next to me on the living room floor), as a part of their everyday and often play with/in it.

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Lily & Noha - Oct 7th 2015

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:04 pm 
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Thanks Thomas, just wanted to mention your cats are beautiful!

Rich


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 8:18 pm 
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ttl wrote:
They never had a problem with the carrier throughout their trips to the vet for shots for the first couple of months. Since I've bought a bigger one a while ago they see is as a part of the status quo (in fact, it's next to me on the living room floor), as a part of their everyday and often play with/in it.


Heh, yea, but it gets way more challenging over time. Eventually they are going to have some really bad experiences at the vet. They'll need a teeth cleaning, or some tubes inserted, or will need to have some blood drawn against their will... something like that. And once they have an experience or two or three like that, most cats are going to really dread the vet.

Mine were good the first few months too. Now Gaga screams bloody murder, and Serafina is even worse. She gets really angry and basically just tells me: "there is NO 'EFFIN WAY you are taking me to the vet today!" :eek:

I did have one cat who was a really extraordinary cat. I should have had her setup as a therapy cat, she had a personality that would have allowed that. I used to take her to the vet, even at age 10 or so, she'd be just happy-go-lucky about the whole thing, and charm all the people there etc. One time they were trying to listen to her heart and respiration, and they had to put something on a rag and put it near her nose to get her to stop purring :lol: Even she dreaded the vet eventually, after she developed some serious problems near the end of her life.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:02 pm 
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RichF wrote:
Thanks Thomas, just wanted to mention your cats are beautiful!

Rich


thanks :)

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Lily & Noha - Oct 7th 2015

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2016 9:10 pm 
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brianj12 wrote:
Heh, yea, but it gets way more challenging over time. Eventually they are going to have some really bad experiences at the vet. They'll need a teeth cleaning, or some tubes inserted, or will need to have some blood drawn against their will... something like that. And once they have an experience or two or three like that, most cats are going to really dread the vet.


I've no doubt they are. But at least through the initial few months Lucy should be allright, enough to get her to the vet to be spayed. Mine got spayed by the breeder at 11 weeks, probably easier for him and definitely for me :D

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 8:20 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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It really is such an old school attitude to not get cats spayed/neutered early.
Here in Australia the majority are done early and rarely are there issues such as you described.

Just some info FYI
"Cats also demonstrate behavioral changes associated with gonadectomy. With male cats, castration before 5.5 months is associated with decreased sexual behavior and urine spraying, decreased aggression toward veterinarians, and increased frequency of hiding behaviors. In both male and female cats, gonadectomy before 5.5 months was associated with a decreased occurrence of shyness around strangers. Another study of 800 kittens randomly assigned to prepubertal gonadectomy (8–12 weeks) or traditional-age gonadectomy (6–8 months) found no difference in behavioral problems between groups after adoption. Kittens were followed frequently for 24 months after adoption, and the occurrence of inappropriate elimination, fearful behavior, non-play-related aggression, and destruction did not differ based upon timing of gonadectomy.

With cats, the overwhelming evidence would suggest that gonadectomy is safe in cats at any age over 6 weeks. Since cats of both sexes will gain weight after gonadectomy, it is crucial to maintain cats at a healthy weight so as to avoid weight-associated endocrine disease and potential for slipped capital physes in males."


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 05, 2016 5:06 pm 
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Awesome advice being given in this thread!!!!!


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:38 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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I'm in the UK so my advice might not necessarily be relevant.

I breed (tonkinese) and i neuter before my kittens leave me. They are neutered at 12 weeks. I neuter for all the reasons Brian mentions... though neutering in the UK is significantly cheaper than the US! I pay around £70 for girls and £55 for boys. They recover exceptionally quickly compared to neutering at 6months or older. They are honestly so much better!

Regarding testing, i wouldn't bother. It won't necessarily change anything to you so why bother. I don't believe there to be any treatment so it's not really necessary to know before they get ill! Regarding immunisation for FELV. I, personally, would get it even for indoor only cats. If there is a slight possibility, even if it is miniscule, of them escaping then i would get it as it's so much more reassuring knowing you are protected. Also worth noting, there is a lot of false info online that says that bengals do not need FELV injections because the ALC is immune. This is not true.

Regarding the size, that is around 1kg at 10 weeks. This is small but not abnormally small. However, gaining 1lb in a week is quite a lot which makes me believe she was poorly cared for by teh breeder and possibly fed a poor diet. This can have consequences as early nutrition is huge building blocks for later life... however it may not be significant and she may just be small.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:54 pm 
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Just to add. I HATE collars! Too many accidents... if they are not absolutely necessary then do without.

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