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PostPosted: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:55 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

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Hello!! Im Char and i wanted to know if it is reccomended safe to buy a Bengal kitten from out of state. I found a breeder by random on craigslist. She has provided pics and a copy of her TICA certificate.. Im just a little unsure because I've never done this before. So idk if her certificate is truly valid. The kitten is being shipped to me from Minnesota. Please help.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 4:55 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Personally, I don't trust anything from Craigslist. A reputable breeder will have an official website or a Facebook page. There are scams galore out there where people pay for a cat and never get a cat. This does not necessarily mean this breeder is not legitimate. TICA certificates can be manipulated too. If the cost was your only consideration and this kitten is cheaper than what you would normally pay for a purebred bengal, I would be suspicious. Do you due diligence and research this breeder -- dig deep! If there is anything negative, it is probably on the internet.

Shipping a kitten is not a huge issue. However, this means you have not actually visited your kitten and you are getting a cat from a photograph and a description from the breeder. Know that your kitten needs to arrive with a health certificate and its first round of vaccines. It would be great if the kitten were already spayed.

I always recommend that you visit the breeder in person. Legitimate breeders allow this, even if their cattery is in their home. You can see the environment the queens and kittens are kept in and you can actually SEE and hold the kittens. Surely there are breeders closer to where you live.

This is just my opinion. I would not get a purebred cat from anyone on Craigslist. If they aren't willing to spend the money and time to create a better web presence than an ad, I'd stay away from them.


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:19 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Here's what I think of when I see a breeder advertising on Craigslist:

* they are lazy and haven't bothered to build up a website, visit cat shows, build relationships etc.
* they are supremely unconcerned about landing their kittens into a good home (just so long as they get paid)
* there is little to no demand for their kittens (wonder why?)
* because of the above points, you have to wonder if they are cutting other corners, like shots, socialization, selecting a good quality queen and stud, and the paperwork necessary to run a cattery.

Conversely, I feel a lot better when I see:
* A breeder with a nice website
* Having lots of cat show activity and ribbons etc
* Having lots of detail about their queens and studs
* Having lots of detail about re-homing their kittens (a conservative re-homing age, medical care, terms of a health guarantee, the food and litter to use, when you'll get the kitten registration paperwork, etc).
* Lots of detail about how the kittens are raised (including pictures)
* What health screenings have been done, both to parents and kittens
* Criteria for prospective new owners (they won't rehome to just anyone!)
* Advertisements in legit cat magazines
* A waiting list for kittens!

Honestly, if you spend 1 hour on google, you'll be able to find a number of prospective, legit, breeders that you can check out. Getting a pure bred kitten is not like getting a used laptop. I would never use Craigstlist for that. And btw, legit breeders are often very versed in doing business with out-of-state customers, so they should have some reasonable policies regarding that and let you know exactly what you can expect and what they expect from you.

Whether the certificate is valid or not should be the least of your worries imo.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:50 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:43 pm
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Thank you thank you!! I was suspicious because the cat came with all vaccinations and a microchip litter and food and a food certificate. Plus pedigree credentials. Biggest issue all that plus shipping for $250.. Claims because she was pregnant and wasn't doing well for her new litter. But i thank you for the responses. It just secured me in my decision that I'd rather spend a pretty penny for what i want versus getting an unbelievable deal!!


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:11 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Yeaaaaah that has scam written all over it. Shipping alone costs on average $300. RUN AWAY.

Im going to disagree with Brian's assessment of advertisment. ALL breeders, even those with the very best kittens, had to start somewhere. They had to advertise somewhere/somehow. Ribbons and awards from showing dont mean a breeder is ethical or reputable. I can personally name a show breeder near me who has hundreds of show ribbons from his own cats.... yet he knowingly sells VERY sick cats and kittens who routinely die from FIP.

Im picking up a possibly pregnant bengal queen this weekend (full TICA registration/ rights, all health screenings including HCM and coat testing done and current, bred to a stunning TICA stud who has also had all possible testing done). As I dont have a list of people waiting for kittens from me because no one knows me or will even know I will HAVE kittens available, I will have to advertise. I wont be advertising on CL, but I WILL still have to advertise. This doesnt make me trashy, lazy, unconcerned, dishonest, uncaring or anything else. It means Im just barely starting and have to get my name out AS a breeder. Its the blatant scammers though that ruin it for everyone else who need to advertise.

Anyways...enough of my rant. Heres the link to an article I wrote that has fantastic info on how to select a reputable breeder. I learned all this first hand while dealing with a less than reputable breeder (the above mentioned one actually) myself:

http://www.bengalcats.co/the-importance ... l-breeder/


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 3:51 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Location: Portland Oregon, USA
I never said or implied that you had to do the show circuit to be a good breeder, or that doing so makes you a good breeder. I merely said that doing so is one of a very long list of things that makes a positive impression on me personally. And I certainly stand by that.

Doing well in cat shows certainly doesn't make one a great breeder, but it demonstrates a certain level of commitment, knowledge of the breed, that you select your breeding queens and studs with great care, and do a pretty good job of socializing your kittens. All of those are undoubtedly good things.

Conversely, you're making my point by throwing yourself out there as a new breeder, not doing those things, advertising on Craigstlist, and saying "you have to start somewhere". Here's a very simple question: If you keep going as a breeder, are you going to be a better breeder 5 years from now than you are now? And if so, how much better do you think you'll be?

It's not simply checkbox of being reputable or non-reputable. Like anything else it's a skill that you work on and improve as you go.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 7:48 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Brian...sorry, but your list of what does or doesnt make a good breeder in YOUR eyes was pretty black and white. You say there isnt a "check list" of what makes or breaks a breeder as reputable, yet you pretty much wrote one. To me, there are certain crucial factors that should be placed of greater importance than other factors (ie....I dont care if a breeder shows, nor do I care how they choose to advertise. I DO care if their cats and kittens are proven to be genetically sound, healthy and well socalized)

I DO plan on getting on board with the show circuit. First, I have to have a show quality cat. Do I have $5k or more this second to buy a show quality kitten to start with? Nope. My Suri is a darling and her coat pattern is beautiful and quite unique...but she wouldnt exactly be winning any ribbons or titles at a show. The new queen is also quite pretty, well marked, and has decent lineage, but shes also not a show winner compared to those Ive seen win titles. The KITTENS she throws could easily be show quality though. Her previous litters have been amazing.

If you read my comment, I flat out stated I will NOT advertise on CL. There are far better sites than that junk page. But yes, I will still have to advertise. I have NO friends or family here, so its not like they can spread the word. I could attempt to network with my queen's breeder and other bengal breeders/showmen I have become friends with online, but that seems like a stretch. As Ive never produced kittens, its impossible to have a waiting list and clientel lined up, right? As I will only have one queen for the time being, there is truly no need for a full blown webpage at this point. It would be a pretty boring page.

Should I decide to continue this endeavor, yes I absolutely will be working my butt off to improve and further the bengal breed. Not only do I truly adore bengals and wish to contribute to this amazing breed, but I would also never risk my own reputation by producing inferior quality cats. Yep, that means investing in the best cats I can find, importing if I have to. (which I have done before with dogs) I FULLY intend to always keep lines clean, have all my (future) queens and studs undergo all necessary health screenings and coat testing. I know without a doubt in my mind I would go from "beginner" to extremely accomplished breeder in 5 years time. Ive done it before while breeding and showing other species, even showing (and winning) at a national level repeatedly.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 4:54 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Location: Portland Oregon, USA
DeputyMP24 wrote:
[color=#FF00BF]Brian...sorry, but your list of what does or doesnt make a good breeder in YOUR eyes was pretty black and white. You say there isnt a "check list" of what makes or breaks a breeder as reputable, yet you pretty much wrote one.


This kinda reminds me of the Monty Python skit about arguments.

You continually confuse being a good breeder with being a reputable one. And you seem to be fixated on this. In fact I didn't say a single thing about being reputable. How reputable a breeder is, is certainly very important, but is difficult to discern without perhaps getting a bunch of first hand accounts by their customers. And of course this would actually be impossible to discern for a new breeder as they wouldn't have any history doing it.

And my comment about a "checkbox" (not a checklist) just meant that I don't believe that finding a good breeder is as easy or black and white as finding somebody who meets some minimal criteria of reputability. There's way way more to it than that.

But besides that, I'm not even sure what we're arguing about then, lol. I mean you've pretty much agreed with all my points, except to imply that they ought to be prioritized, and that there should be some allowance for "rookie league" breeders so long as they meet some minimal criteria of reputability, and that it is actually possible that some brilliant breeders might not meet any or all of my criteria (which should have been obvious).

And my list is simply my list. I'd love to see other people posting their own criteria. Quite frankly, my list is the list that I wish I would have had (and used) when I got my first pedigreed cats. As it turns out the actual breeder I used that first time would have failed about half of the things on that list. And it's obviously not a perfect predictor of how well your experience will turn out. It's a screening tool, not a crystal ball.

Other than that I can't even figure out what we're arguing about anymore.

If you wish to continue this discussion, please for the love of god figure out where the quotation key is. I really don't enjoy reading posts where people butcher the english language to that degree (in fact I usually put such people on ignore).

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Last edited by brianj12 on Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:03 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
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Truthfully, it costs very little to have a basic website hosted on the internet with the domain name of your cattery. These days, there are software programs that basically design themselves! You just type in the information and enter the images. If that is too much trouble, you have Facebook. Suri has her own page, so I know this is easy for you to do. I just think CraigsList is the dingiest place to advertise anything. The long list of criminals perusing their ads is crazy and people have been murdered. But, for the bengals -- you, Deputy, do have to start somewhere, but social media is a great (and free) tool. GREAT breeders have testimonials and word of mouth spreads fast. You shouldn't have but a few kittens to find homes for.

Everyone has their own opinion on what makes a great breeder -- and yes, there are probably some out there who are members of every bengal organization out there, have a beautiful website and still sell sick kittens. That is probably not how they started out their cattery. Good luck with your Queen, Deputy.

As for the original poster -- you should NEVER find a purebred bengal kitten for $250. It will be 3 to 4 times that amount, plus the shipping is incredibly expensive! Thanks for walking away.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 03, 2016 5:07 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Sherry wrote:
you, Deputy, do have to start somewhere, but social media is a great (and free) tool. GREAT breeders have testimonials and word of mouth spreads fast. You shouldn't have but a few kittens to find homes for.


Yea that's a really excellent point.

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