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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 2:30 am 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:58 pm
Posts: 6
Thank you so much fo putting together this resource. I wonder though if anyone else has had issues with digestion problems in raw fed kitties?

My girls are now on fully raw after a gentle transition period from half raw chicken with bone ground in, half kibble which they were getting at the breeder. I use the prey model, with 80% meat/fat/skin, 10% bone 5% liver and 5% ox kidney. I give a salmon oil capsule twice a week as they don't get fish (fish gives them loose stools but the oil doesn't seem to). Because they have previously been constipated on fully raw I give a small pinch of physillium husk in each meal.

They are fed three times a day, 50 gr per meal. They get chicken thigh every day, two meals a week of lamb heart and three of beef skirt. They get liver and kidney twice a week (not the same day) and chicken wings twice a week. Their diet is balanced and complete across the week rather than within each individual meal.

They love their food, get very excited about meal time and eat everything I offer with enthusiasm, but I've noticed very loose stools when they have eaten liver, and also a tendency to vomit after eating kidney. I know they need the offal for a balanced diet, but it's clearly upsetting their digestion!

My brown girl Katniss is much more affected than my snow girl Luna. I'm tracking their meals and stools plus any vomit etc carefully (I feel a little crazy keeping a poop journal for my cats!) to see if there are any other trends I can see.

My feeling is that I need to remove the kidney, but I'm at a loss what to replace it with, and that the liver needs to be distributed throughout the week instead of in two meals as it is at present.

I don't want to drop the liver as its nutritionally so important, but can I just give them heart for the rest of their offal portion? They love this and it seems to agree with them too.

Would I be better off mixing up all the different meats in the right ratio and giving them the same each day rather than balancing through the week as they have currently? I don't want to grind their food though, especially not the bone.

Any suggestions really welcome, I'm a bit lost and worried that I'm doing this wrong and harming my baby girls (even though my vet says my ratios are spot on and they look super healthy.)


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:31 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:54 pm
Posts: 163
Two things I would suggest, first, have you tried feeding the liver & kidney along side other meat, as oppose to a meal? Maybe I misunderstood? Secondly, there are some great people over on FB in a group called cat crap (completely raw and proud) who I'm sure will be able to help you find substitute meats if needed. Hope you have some luck and get this sorted!

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:34 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:58 pm
Posts: 6
They get their portion of liver or kidney along with some chicken - about half and half. Thanks for the info about the Facebook group, I'll definitely check that out!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:59 am 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2015 9:45 pm
Posts: 1
Hi

I have 2 Bengal kittens, one just doesn't seem to be able to tolerate wet food at all, loves the taste of it and have tried different ones. Anyway I have now reached the decision to switch both the kittens and my other cats to raw in the hope that this sorts out their issues, I have ordered a starter pack from Nutriment which should be delivered today.
I intended to start off slowly and mixing with their other wet food to get them use to it, however as I have now had to stop all wet food for the kittens should I just give them a normal serving of the raw food? I have some fortiflora to sprinkle on the top.

Thank you


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 4:34 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:04 pm
Posts: 2
I've been intensively researching on raw diets and I've been seeing Louise's diet recipe on CatCRAP, on this Forum (for instance suki postend this recipe starting this thread).
"2 x 2kg (4.4lb) oven ready chickens
800g (28oz) of sheep/ ox/ pig heart
400g (14oz) of organ meat (200g min liver, and the rest kidney/ spleen as available)
6 eggs if I have them (whole eggs, none of this only feed the yolk nonsense)
A splash of salmon oil (if I remember, not essential but it is quite good for them)"
I was wondering if anyone goes by this recipe still. If you do, do you follow it 100%, or have you tweaked it at all?
I know using bone is something your cats need, so if you use a "grindless" recipe, how do you get bone in there for your cats? Vitamins, or tips of chicken wings?


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Oct 16, 2015 11:46 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 8:00 am
Posts: 706
Location: Ogden, UT
We feed a grind mix of mostly chicken gizzards and hearts along with taurine powder and crushed eggshells.
In any raw recipe be sure to note that hearts are not considered organs but are given for their high taurine content.

We feed a pre-made duck variety from Nature's Variety as well, for those times I don't have time to prepare our own.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 11:07 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:52 am
Posts: 2
Hello
My 4 1/5 month old boy took to raw, like a fish to water.
so do I need to add supplement into the chunked raw meat,organ,bone mix
or is just changing the type of meat daily enough
I want to get him to eat whole carcass rather than chunking or grinding
as of now he loves beef liver ( but I think thats not good for him)
so I'll order chicken for next batch of food
he eats fish, trout,(salmon,sardines) these alot etc.
chicken, liver,part,neck,bone & all
beef
lamb
pork
So; do I need to add supplements?
any advise
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 12:10 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:00 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Portland Oregon, USA
brad moreau wrote:
So; do I need to add supplements?


Yes, absolutely. And not just adding supplements, but knowing which ones and in what amounts to add as well. Rotating meats are of no help whatsoever in getting your cat the vitamins and minerals that he needs. If you want to feed raw, you really need to be of one of two types of people:

1. A person who studies cat nutrition very seriously and understands all the nuances and science behind it, then comes up with your own recipes
2. A person who meticulously follows the tried and true recipes of others who are the first type.

Not understanding the science and improvising recipes is a recipe for disaster (no pun intended).

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:34 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8088
Just because the Asian Leopard cat eats carcasses doesn't mean a domestic cat is geared for that. Most raw feeding entails grinding up the meat, bones, organs, etc. Cats have specific nutritional needs, especially taurine and that is found in the heart and liver of the animal. I don't know how many people feed raw fish to a cat. There is a lot of information online that you can read. A nutritional supplement is honestly not needed if the cat is getting everything, including calcium which is found in the bones. However, nutritional supplements are sold in pet stores and online and you may want to consider adding a small amount to the food. We do have many members who feed a raw diet. You need to do it the proper way.


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:25 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2016 4:24 pm
Posts: 308
With feeding raw to my two I've started by finding a good recommended provider of premade raw mainly so I can transition over but also it's easier to find out which meats they like and which they will eat before I invest in making any raw in bulk. Most people seem to recommend 80% muscle meat/bone mix, 10% offal, 10% liver for cats. Now I have a pretty good idea as to the basics and which meats my two will and won't eat I can then look into mixing up my own, the best plan is to take people's recipes that are tried and tested and tweak them if needed for your cat.

Meat rotation isn't really considered unless your cat is turning its nose up at what you are feeding, most people rotate between two to a max of 3 different meats anyway and that's mainly down to what they like. All vitamins minerals and taurine your cat needs will come from the organs that are added to the muscle meat and you need to feed organs, I've heard vets say the main reason why they have issues with people feeding raw is they don't do it right and avoid the organ meat. Just feeding your cat chicken breast or fish fillets is going to make them one very sick kitty.

So far my main issue and bane or my life with raw feeding is bone to fibre ratio. A lot of premade raw isn't ground as much bone wise as I would like and it's often causing constipation so I have to add fibre to both my cats diets they have a mix of profibre and fresh pumpkin purée (Griff is sick with canned) 1tsp in each meal per day and I've found that helps them pass everything through.

With raw feeding Fibre content seems to be the biggest thing that isn't addressed with feeding cats with premade raw. It's probably because in the wild cats would eat everything from their kill including the fur and skin which actually helps the meat and bone pass through their system there doesn't seem to be anything added to cat BARF to replace this unlike which dogs who have vegetables added. There are only a few vegetables that cats can eat and digest and it's in a small quantity.

Besides what's been mentioned above with taurine which is why everyone recommends 10% liver, for 10% offal most use heart or some use lung or stomach mix. Then the rest is made up of muscle meat of which 5-10% seems to be ground bone, bone is the one aspect that's pretty flexible I would actually use less bone and more muscle meat ratio if your cat is getting constipation. Using that amount of offal and liver is vital to getting the vitamins and taurine levels correct, you can't just feed carcass or raw muscle meat only or your pet will get very sick.

As for supplements the big one( if you are making sure you feed organs in the mix, otherwise you will need to get a vitamin and mineral and taurine supplement for cats and mix that in) as I've said above is fibre use psyllium husk or buy and actual fibre supplement like profibre which also contains some extras like probiotics and prebiotic unless you wish to feed these separately.

If your cat will eat it I would recommend adding pumpkin,butternut squash or sweet potato as well with your dried fibre if you are feeding lean meats like chicken,turkey, rabbit or venison where there is little fat content as these also add much needed moisture and stop constipation. You need to give 1tsp of the fibre combination in each meal. If you are feeding fattier meats like beef,lamb or duck this doesn't seem to bad as big of an issue.

I would recommend always having a tube or prokolin or similar probiotic around just incase especially when first transitioning over and give it to them daily for the first week and then you can just give it when needed depending on their stool consistency.

As my two are kittens they also have high calorie vitamin paste mixed into their food every morning just to make sure they get everything they need although I'll be stopping this soon. I always keep some on through just incase of emergencies like one of mine is off-colour or not eating.

As long as you stick to the 80/10/10 and just tweak the amount of bone and fibre to your specific cat you should be fine. Adding probiotics or extra vitamin supplements is then just a personal choice depending on if your cat is not gaining weight or having tummy issues.

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Arya 24/04/16 - Seal Lynx Point Rosetted Bengal
Griffith 16/04/16 - Silver Seal Lynx Point Rosetted Bengal
Mina (in my avatar)- 1999-2016 - Seal Mink Spotted Bengal (Snow) - run free at rainbow bridge


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:15 pm 
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Senior Bengal

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:03 pm
Posts: 67
Not sure if I dare to feed any raw food to my cat: The Dangers of a Raw Diet for Your Cat

The closest I ever get is to feed it lightly boiled chicken meat til its just half cooked.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 5:15 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8088
There are many people on the fence when it comes to raw feeding. Some vets are in favor of it, other vets will tell you absolutely not. Most raw feeding is chicken. You can also purchase raw food at the pet store (usually refrigerated or frozen), but quite expensive. Manufactured cat food is fine for a bengal. Most prefer a grain-free wet or dry food. It's probably best to keep feeding what the breeder was feeding.


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:42 am 
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Senior Bengal

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:03 pm
Posts: 67
'Raw' food sounds wild, visceral and sexy, but should not be the only way to go. The trend to evangelize that raw food as the only way has become rather unhealthy. Its absurd to state that all non-raw foods are terrible because there are thousands of healthy, happy cats living til ripe old age who don't eat raw diets.

A Bengal is not a pure wild Asian Leopard Cat and already has domesticated genes.

Going by the raw food rhetoric logic, it would then seem to suggest that all pure-bred Bengals should be left in the wild then, why not? Let them find their own food, catch the quails, lizards and rodents will live happily ever after til ripe old age, which is ridiculous. In fact, in the wild, the opposite is true, as they are subjected to harsh environments, food shortages and intense competition. There are no 'Red-Cross' or doctors to take good care of a war casualty, so to speak, lol. Should they eat accidentally eat the wrong 'wild' food, they will be left to rot and die.

Whereas in captivity, nearly all animals will live longer than in the wild simply because their diet can be carefully monitored and given proper medical care. Exceptions are those animals such as Orca whales, dolphins, elephants and warthogs due to obvious environmental factors.

A Bengal cat is not a ocean-dwelling dolphin or forest-roaming animal.

Domestic cats are known to live only 1-2 years on the streets, eating any 'wild' food, animals that they can kind and getting sick, poisoned and thus suffer in the process. Whereas domesticated cats live much longer, living mainly on healthier commercial pet foods. Of course not all manufactured pet food are alike, you'll just need to get a reliable reputable brand with a good balance of nutrients suitable for your cat.

I'd think that due to its wild genes, a Bengal definitely needs food with higher meat protein content and to be grain/gluten free.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2017 9:40 am 
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Bengal Cat
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Joined: Fri Jan 13, 2017 5:30 pm
Posts: 44
I may add a separate new subject in this section as in the UK we have fewer raw suppliers to share opinions of, but here's our storey of moving to raw feeding recently:

Fantastic!

Our boys are now over nine months old but since having them from the breeder have always had inconsistent stools, more often than not soft, worryingly too frequently loose. But appetite good, health and weight gain, fur condition and playfulness all progressed.

We moved them off kitten pouches the breeder used with dry always down also, onto Bozita grain free kitten food, and gradually withdrew dry food. This was ok, happily they eat what we give them (yay) but poop characteristics similar and even more smelly. Started to add fortiflora for a month or two which may have changed things a bit but hard to make a definitive link.

So, last week I took the plunge to start raw feeding. 50-50 mix of Bozita kitten with chicken raw from an established UK supplier.

Wow - almost immediate solid stools deposited less frequently with little detectable disagreeable aromas!

Happy bengal parents here!!! We need to decide if going to completely raw rather than mixing, and it is early days I want to ensure the food we buy meets all their nutritional needs, but our message to other owners is to give this serious thought if your cats digestive system isn't settled

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