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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 7:02 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Don't get me wrong I completely agree with what you are saying to a certain degree but I disagree that only those that can afford high prices or don't want to know what the price would be upfront would make the best owners.

My cats (and I've had many) are thoroughly spoilt but I do have a budget that I can't go over and it's wasting everyone's time for it not to be made clear.

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Oscar and Jasper (or one ear and two ears as dh calls them) black rescue mogges

RIP my sweet baby Dexter, Snow Bengal 19/5/14 to 5/3/15 and my lovely dear old friend Muskey, Brown Burmese put to rest aged 15 on 14/11/15.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:51 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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I'm not saying that people who can afford expensive cats make better owners.

But I don't like it when people make that the number one priority. For me, when choosing a kitten (as I've been that person lots), I research the best breeder then look at the expense. Then I narrow down my choice. I would never automatically rule anyone out of the decision on price alone. Health, screening and breeding ethics will always come first.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 22, 2014 11:53 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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The vast majority of cat breeders will not have prices on their website. Those that do are in a minority.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:30 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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It's just my own personal view mostly that I wish breeders would be more upfront with their pricing.

There's a set amount I would pay which I think is reasonable (probably around the £500 mark) but over this (and some do charge more for the same quality pet) I wouldn't pay. I also took over 12 months to decide which breed of cat I wanted which would suit our family. Even so no guarantee and whatever our kitten (personality or otherwise) would turn out to be he would have a loving home here for life.

I know we are not talking personally here but in general, but money is not my number one priority either. If it was I wouldn't have spent the amount of money I have done so far and put the time and effort into researching foods etc if it was. He'd still be stuck on Kitten Whiskas for instance, which the breeder had him on.

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Oscar and Jasper (or one ear and two ears as dh calls them) black rescue mogges

RIP my sweet baby Dexter, Snow Bengal 19/5/14 to 5/3/15 and my lovely dear old friend Muskey, Brown Burmese put to rest aged 15 on 14/11/15.

Debbie


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:03 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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I personally don't have a problem with prices not being displayed on breeders websites.
What I DO have a problem with however, are breeders who don't give the full
registered pedigree names of the sire and dam of the kittens they are advertising.
Some just give their pet names which to me is very unprofessional and would make me think that they have something to hide.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 10:59 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Also, most breeders do this as a hobby. It's not a business. I certainly am lucky if I break even! Displaying prices in a website takes you over into a grey area of business versus hobby breeder.

If I knew the perfect home for one of my kittens but that person could not afford one. I may be slightly flexible with costs. But not if that person discounted me in the first place because of costs.

Don't forget that the price to screen cats for health related issues is extremely costly. It may have cost the breeder several hundreds to get her girl pregnant only for there to be two kittens. These kind of hints are factored into pricings.

I would much rather wait another 12 months for a kitten from the right breeder than choosing to compromise on something to get a cheaper one.

Some prices are based in markings and conforming to type which are less important as a pet buyer. So it's worth knowing why they are more money.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 11:21 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Most don't put prices on their website because most decide what the price is depending on the quality of the kitten, the time of year, how many kittens they have to sell. the number of people interested and how much the breeding pair cost them and other costs ie vet bills, health screening bills.
If someone has imported the parents spent up to £5000 each on them and the kittens are fantastic then they will expect to sell them for breeding, if they aren't able to do that because perhaps of a showing/breeding fault like a locket or a tail fault, they are hardly going to give them away as pets for £350 each.

Whereas if the breeder has bred both the cats herself, essentially they cost her very little, the pedigree is not that great, the kittens are just OK looks wise, or she knows a similar breeder down the road is giving hers away for £200, then she may be quite happy to give them away for £200-£250.

Of course some will charge high prices for inferior kittens and some will charge low prices for superb kittens. Price is not always a good judge of quality.
That is why it is necessary to know about the breed and to know what you like and expect from the cat, before you go looking for kittens.
If you just want a happy, friendly spotty cat that loves you then my advice is to get a tabby moggie.
If you truly want a Bengal then to my mind you should get a good example of the breed, and unless you have done research, you can quite easily be ripped off.
If your budget is limited, be upfront with the breeder, many breeders have older kittens, or know of a breeder with older kittens say 16 weeks, that they may expect less for. They may have cheaper kittens available too., kittens that may not be so good in the looks department. Bengals to breeders are usually ALL about pattern, it is the be all and end all, so if you are not that fussed about pattern then bargains may be struck.
Many breeders also have "hanger on" young cats that may have been kept for breeding but for some reason it didn't work out. These young cats are often of a better quality than average, but may cost a lot less to buy.

Annieco wrote:
I personally don't have a problem with prices not being displayed on breeders websites.
What I DO have a problem with however, are breeders who don't give the full registered pedigree names of the sire and dam of the kittens they are advertising.
Some just give their pet names which to me is very unprofessional and would make me think that they have something to hide.


Agreed Annieco - anyone who is hiding the pedigrees of their cats is suspect in my book too.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 12:52 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Yes I understand there are probably a lot of factors I am not taking into consideration and I realise that it is a labour of love and I really do respect how much they love and care for their cats/kittens and want only the best for them.

I just find I am put off contacting a breeder if I don't know the price upfront. That's just how I feel.

I did contact a few when I was looking for Dexter but the prices were far too high, and it all felt a bit awkward. I managed to find a breeder who did quote her prices and I contacted her and that's how we got our gorgeous boy.

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Oscar and Jasper (or one ear and two ears as dh calls them) black rescue mogges

RIP my sweet baby Dexter, Snow Bengal 19/5/14 to 5/3/15 and my lovely dear old friend Muskey, Brown Burmese put to rest aged 15 on 14/11/15.

Debbie


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:23 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

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lollo2304 wrote:
I breed, though not bengals. I don't have prices on my website as I don't need to. Most people who enquire know the price of a pedigree kitten anyhow. I also don't want a price to sway people from looking at my site and kittens. If price is the most important factor for a buyer then that is not what I want for my kittens, though I appreciate price is important and will disclose to people when asked directly.

My price is not set until I have worked out my normal expenses per litter. For example, this current litter I had were £25. More than last years litter. This is because my outgoings have gone up, stud fee and vet charges for vaccinations and neutering. I also pay the GCCF fee for transferring ownership on their registration document once full payment has been received.

The vast majority of breeders will not display their prices on their website. A simple email would allow you to find out though. As a breeder I would rather people chose one of my kittens based on what I do with my breeding, my ethics etc... Rather than the fact that I might be a few pound more or less than a competitor.

I also think in not displaying your price for all to see it minimises the chances of breeders pricing other breeders out of the competition.... If you see what I mean.


I am currently looking for a bengal kitten, and i am avoiding people who can't be bothered to put a price on their kittens
'Most people who enquire know the price of a pedigree kitten anyhow' - wouldn't that mean there would be no issue on putting a price?
I don't have an issue with breeders working out the cost per kitten that is obviously going to be normal practice.
Although i feel i have come up with a great idea (and bare with me here) once you have worked out how much you are going to sell the kittens for put a price on them.

As i said i am avoiding lazy breeders who want me to set the price of the kitten, its your kitten put a price on it, i am not going to phone up 20-30-50 breeder's to find out the cost of each cat. It appears that those who don't price their kittens want to see how much they can get out of you as there is literally no other reason not to put a price.

'If price is the most important factor for a buyer then that is not what I want for my kittens' so can you please tell me what the most important factor is then? the quality of a kitten (pattern, structure e.t.c) is going to be 100% directly linked to the price, taking this into account price IS the most important factor although I'm willing for anyone to prove me wrong.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:40 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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midge wrote:
lollo2304 wrote:
I breed, though not bengals. I don't have prices on my website as I don't need to. Most people who enquire know the price of a pedigree kitten anyhow. I also don't want a price to sway people from looking at my site and kittens. If price is the most important factor for a buyer then that is not what I want for my kittens, though I appreciate price is important and will disclose to people when asked directly.

My price is not set until I have worked out my normal expenses per litter. For example, this current litter I had were £25. More than last years litter. This is because my outgoings have gone up, stud fee and vet charges for vaccinations and neutering. I also pay the GCCF fee for transferring ownership on their registration document once full payment has been received.

The vast majority of breeders will not display their prices on their website. A simple email would allow you to find out though. As a breeder I would rather people chose one of my kittens based on what I do with my breeding, my ethics etc... Rather than the fact that I might be a few pound more or less than a competitor.

I also think in not displaying your price for all to see it minimises the chances of breeders pricing other breeders out of the competition.... If you see what I mean.


I am currently looking for a bengal kitten, and i am avoiding people who can't be bothered to put a price on their kittens
'Most people who enquire know the price of a pedigree kitten anyhow' - wouldn't that mean there would be no issue on putting a price?
I don't have an issue with breeders working out the cost per kitten that is obviously going to be normal practice.
Although i feel i have come up with a great idea (and bare with me here) once you have worked out how much you are going to sell the kittens for put a price on them.

As i said i am avoiding lazy breeders who want me to set the price of the kitten, its your kitten put a price on it, i am not going to phone up 20-30-50 breeder's to find out the cost of each cat. It appears that those who don't price their kittens want to see how much they can get out of you as there is literally no other reason not to put a price.

'If price is the most important factor for a buyer then that is not what I want for my kittens' so can you please tell me what the most important factor is then? the quality of a kitten (pattern, structure e.t.c) is going to be 100% directly linked to the price, taking this into account price IS the most important factor although I'm willing for anyone to prove me wrong.


Breeders don't omit the price out of laziness! And it most certainly is not down to the fact that they can charge whatever's they think that particular buyer will spend. I would like a buyer to be interested in one of my kittens because they respect the way I breed, my ethics and how well socialised my kittens are. I never have a short supply of interested people in my kittens. Interestingly, the people whose first question is how much are they are usually the people that do not respond once they get their answer. I send out a standard reply when I get enquiries, detailing what you get for the price and detailing the process.

I do not want a new owner of my kittens, that I care greatly for, to be price orientated. I won't them to be clued up on the cats in question and be prepared to do some research on owning one.

Also worth saying that very often the breeders who display their prices are the ones I would never buy a kitten from... Though that isn't always the case but when I was buying kittens I found these breeders to be the ones underpricing their opposition but offering far less in the way of socialisation and health screening.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:45 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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midge wrote:

'If price is the most important factor for a buyer then that is not what I want for my kittens' so can you please tell me what the most important factor is then? the quality of a kitten (pattern, structure e.t.c) is going to be 100% directly linked to the price, taking this into account price IS the most important factor although I'm willing for anyone to prove me wrong.


Wrong...

Many, many breeders price all the kittens the same regardless of type or coat quality etc... Unless they are specifically sold for breeding. My kittens all cost the same, even the ones sold as breeding cats. All my kittens cost £500 which includes full vaccinations, micro chipping and neutering. They leave with their registration papers which have been transferred into the new owners name. They leave with a kitten pack worth in excess of £25. They will be 14 weeks when they are ready to leave. They have a kitten care document and their pedigree. Plus 4 weeks free insurance.

The most important factor in a new owner is whether they have researched the breed and know what they are looking for. To me, a socialised kitten from health screened parents is far more important than the cost. If I wanted a new kitten I would look for the best breeder who screened her cats. I would want them to be brought up in the home and properly socialised. I would then look at prices once all the other boxes were ticked.

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 4:59 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

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I don't understand, you could quite easily list everything you do that is included (health screening, chipping, vac's e.t.c) then put the price at the bottom, if your site has everything there on how you breed kittens/how good your set up is e.t.c then thats great and will get people interested, however i think you will lose a lot of interest when you don't put a price. Actually i know you will lose interest as i myself am not bothering with these people, as you said anyone looking for a pedigree cat will know the cost but as I'm sure your fully aware there is great variation in cost from as low as £250 to as high as £1k, so how am i meant to work out how much 'breeder A' wants for their kittens? guess? phone/email you say, ok so ill phone/email 50 breeders? then wait days for a response from all of them to decide what i want to do? ridiculous.

I think its just the dealer seeing what they can get out of each particular buyer, there simply isn't another explanation.

Again you have said you don't want the potential new owner of one of your kittens to be price orientated yet clearly the quality of the kitten IS price orientated, quality costs money everyone knows that, so if you have a good a setup and your kittens are of a good quality then they will be more expensive than a lower quality setup and lower quality kitten and yet no one knows how much more expensive because you won't price them until the second you answer the phone to a potential buyer, its almost as if its like 'how much money do i need today'

- This post is going to come across as though i am directing it personally at you and i assure you i am not and i apologise if you are offended its just a generalisation from what i have seen and everything i have said is just my opinion.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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You talk as if it's a car you are buying not a living creature....

You say the price of a Bengal kitten is 250 a 1000 pounds... Well, I for one would not buy one for £250. I would be well aware that, unless there were special circumstances, that there is no way that kitten comes from health screened parents and I doubt very much the kitten is or can be registered. I know this because I did my research... I would expect to pay 500-750 for a kitten from health screened parents that was well socialised. I appreciate some breeders will charge more and I may pay more if I was looking for a specific quality or coat pattern etc.. But I would never compromise on buying from health screened lines. Never.

And I don't worry about losing interest from people as I always have far more enquirers than kittens. This year I had 6 available kittens and in excess of 20 people waiting for them. If you discounted me based on not showing prices on my website then that's your loss not mine....

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:08 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

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lollo2304 wrote:

The most important factor in a new owner is whether they have researched the breed and know what they are looking for. To me, a socialised kitten from health screened parents is far more important than the cost. If I wanted a new kitten I would look for the best breeder who screened her cats. I would want them to be brought up in the home and properly socialised. I would then look at prices once all the other boxes were ticked.


So if we accept the first part you said about research/socialised e.t.c, lets say i have found 5 kittens i am interested in, all great markings all socialised e.t.c infact lets assume they are all identical, I've had to phone all 5 dealers up (because of course they don't list prices) and the prices are -

£2000
£1000
£700
£500
£450

What is the most important factor for me now? So again, price is the most important factor, because the final deciding factor on getting the kitten is the price.

As i said previously i am currently looking for a bengal kitten and i will be looking for a reputable dealer who has carried out health checks and the kitten is from a good home, i am not going to be phoning up 10's of dealers to find out the price of each kitten, all i want is transparency, is the cat neutered/health checks/jabs/chip/flea/worming/price i don't want to waste a load of time having to phone up to find out pretty basic information.


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 26, 2014 5:10 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

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I said i was not directing my posts at you, if you have many people waiting then clearly listing a price is not an issue for you, you obviously have a good set up going and must be well regarded, and if i discounted you then maybe it would be my loss, but then with so many people waiting it would be a waste of time phoning you up wouldn't it?


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