Bengal Cat Forums

[jeannie_v]

You gave me some good leads. I don't believe they bred her, they got her from somewhere. I think they did all their cats. I didn't even think about checking Rowdy's litter registrations. According to them or what I remember from their site. They only bred Rowdy, no other males and if they really did get at least one other litter from her and maybe two. It seems they would have had angry kitten owners knocking on their door for the last two years or they registered them. I didn't think about that.

Thank you so much. No they didn't own an F1. They didn't start breeding until Rowdy was of age and he was born in 9/2007. Brade had to come from somewhere. Hmmmmm.

Thank you very much for your time and like I said. You gave me some good ideas. I'm going to contact TICA and I forget the Bengal Association from here. I wrote two down I thought. Thanks again, Jeannie
_________________

[miki129]

If Tarzans mum was bred by another breeder then she would have a different prefix in her name and not Bonafide, or possibly Bonafide after the prefix name of whoever bred her then??

For example my Rudy was bred by Malfulah so his pedigree name starts with Malfulah 1st but his mum was bought by my breeder and not bred by her so his mums name is Utaneko Winnie, and doesnt have Malfulah at all in her name even though Malfulah now own her they didnt breed her, Utaneko bred her...

miki xx
_________________




Miki & My Beloved Bengals http://mybelovedbengals.blogspot.com/

Shiloh, Darcy, Rudy The Roodster & Ozzy...

[bundles of bengals]

I'm glad I've helped you have something to work on Jeannie.
Miki that's what my thinking was...if the mum's name was Bonafide Brady, she HAD to be bred by Bonafide. As a breeder, you can only use your prefix name for a kitten if you were the registered owner of the mum when she gave birth, which also means that Bonafide would have to have owned the F1 mother of Brady, if in fact Brady was an F2.
It's got me curious LOL, I love a bit of pedigree detective work!

TICA would be the ones who would have a record of any registered kittens under the name of Bonafide, the Bengal clubs would be no good as they are just clubs, not registration bodies, so they wouldn't have records of individual cats.
_________________
REN SLAVEN www.slavess.co.uk

[Thundercat]

Oh Jeannie - I wish I had some useful input - but I know you already explored every avenue I had to suggest!! I hope you get the info you are seeking.

Even if not - Tarzan remains equally gorgeous and Zion (aka Tarzan Jr) - will ALWAYS look up to him
_________________
with best wishes

Tim and the Family Feline

Tigra, Azlan, Bilbo and Zion

[jeannie_v]

You helped me back when we discussed it at first Tim. I gave them time and had patience because of you Plus, these guys have had the best input and suggestions.

I didn't think at all about the Cattery names as for breeder and buyer and.....arggghhh okay my head was spinning. This is good detective work, again thanks.

Okay, this is what I know the website said....well pretty sure. We added Brade a snow lynx to something something a snow lynx breeding program. Okay not a quote but there was nothing about them breeding her and I am so positive they didn't. Is there anyway a person would have a cat they didn't breed that wouldn't have the originating cattery. Sorry, I didn't catch what you were saying at first, but again I am soooo very sure they didn't breed that cat.

Just gets more curious and curious. I WILL GET TO THE BOTTOM OF THIS.

Again, thank you so much for the great help. Anything and everything is appreciated but I believe we are on the right scent.
_________________

[jeannie_v]

What about this. If they bought a bengal but didn't pay for a breeding bengal. Would it still have the breeders name in the front or can you name it whatever you like? I have my contract and it says upon receipt of Tarzans neuter confirmation they will send the papers.

I also found where they are registered with the TIBCS..maybe TIBCA, as Bonafide of Washington Matt and Tabatha Sathers of Chehalis Washington, USA. I'll write people tomorrow or Monday. Superbowl here, big day for my family

I found a few more paragraphs from the site but still a broken link when I click on it

Bengal Kittens Washington WA Bonafide Cattery
Brade Available 2yr Adult Snow Spotted lynx Female Shes had 2 gorgeous litters ... Rosette spotted Bengal Cat in WA · Brown Marbled Bengal ... She will make a wonderful addition to any breeding program or a fantastic companion .
www.bonafidepets.com/kittens.html - Cached

Queen bengal page of Bonafide Cattery, F2 Female Seal Lynx snow spotted, Rosetted Brown spotted, Tri colored Brown ... BONAFIDE BRADE Available. BONAFIDE PIP PIP HOORAY. BRADY IS A SNOW LYNX WITH GORGEOUS BLUE EYES. SHE HAS A NICE BUILD AND WILL BE USED IN OUR SNOW PROGRAM TO PRODUCE ROSETTED SNOWS. Available

The google page description is cut up, but the beginning and the end are about her. I just noticed its the same for pip pip hooray, Maybe they did breed her, she was pretty young but they didn't say that on their page. They had only the one male so wouldn't they be breeding back to him unless they bought a little "male" somewhere else. So my quote wasn't quite right but what I gather from this is that she's 2 years old. I don't know, they didn't say they bred her but again their whole cattery was only two years old. Back to TICA....
_________________

[bundles of bengals]

There is no way to use your prefix unless you bred the cat (your prefix is your cattery name).
You can only use that prefix if you were the registered owner of the mum at the time of birth, so for them to call her BONAFIDE Brady she must have been produced by a cat owned by Bonafide.
If they had bought Brady from elsewhere, even if she were unregistered, she would have the name of the cattery she came from. In other words if they had bought her from me she would have the first name SLAVESS. I would register her as Slavess Brady, or if I had only registered the litter but not registered the individuals & left it up to them to choose her name, the Slavess part would remain the same but they could choose whatever they wanted the rest of the name to be.
You can do this with TICA by just registering the litter as a whole, & not registering the individual kittens, you then give the paperwork to each new kitten owner who registers each kitten themselves & chooses the second part of the name, because when the breeder registers the litter the first name will always be registered as that breeder's prefix.
If the new owner has their own prefix, in this case Bonafide, they can also add that to the end of the new kitten's name as a suffix if they have bought it from someone else, as they did with Rowdy. His name is Bishopsbengals Rowdy of Bonafide which means Bishopsbengals bred him, his name is Rowdy & he is owned by Bonafide.

Wherever you see a cat's name with "Firstname Secondname of Thirdname", the first name is always the registered prefix of who bred them, the second name is whatever you want, chosen by either the breeder or new owner, & anything that appears after the "of" is the registered prefix of the new owner.

If for example I had bred Brady & they bought her from me as a kitten, she would be Slavess Brady of Bonafide. They don't have to add Bonafide at the end, it isn't essential but it just lets people know who the cat is registered as being owned by. Again, either I would have chosen the name Brady or I would have left it up to them to choose but the first name Slavess would always be the same if I had bred that kitten & was the registered owner of the mum when that kitten was born.

If they had bought her from someone who was breeding unregistered cats, then there would be no prefix at all, just a cat's name & the offspring wouldn't be able to be registered as Bengals, so her name still wouldn't be able to start with Bonafide, it could be "Brady of Bonafide" but not "Bonafide Brady".

They had to have bred her themselves & they had to have owned her mother. As Tarzan's dad Rowdy was their only stud, they may have taken Brady's mum to visit a different boy to produce the litter that resulted in Brady, they may have done that breeding before they'd bought their own stud boy. Or they could have bred Brady's mum to Rowdy, produced Brady & then mated Brady back to her father Rowdy to produce Tarzan...not ideal but it does happen.

In any case, if their claim that Brady is an F2 is true, they had to have been the registered owners of the F1 mother who produced her, at the time of her birth.

I really hope my rambling on has made some sense!
_________________
REN SLAVEN www.slavess.co.uk

[ginnym]

[bundles of bengals]

LOL Ginny, it's so difficult as I know what I'm on about but putting it into laymen's terms isn't easy! I kept re-reading & adding bits to further explain but it was getting longer & longer so I stopped

I'm happy to try & re-explain if anything doesn't make sense.

Now the trick for Jeannie is to find out the name & heritage of Tarzan's maternal grandmother & grandfather (Brady's parents) & hopefully TICA can help with that if, of course Brady was registered
_________________
REN SLAVEN www.slavess.co.uk

[jeannie_v]

Wow, you are a wealth of information. As is everyone and I am slowly becoming an amature expert. Now, I understand exactly what you are saying. You explained it perfectly.

It is a good pedigree mystery. I hope you all know how much I appreciate the help. I am going to write TICA tomorrow. Today was hectic as my team lost the superbowl. I'll recover but glad its over.

I went over the contract. Their cattery goes by Bonafide of Washington and was registered with the TIBCS and TICA. I might be repeating myself but still going over it in my head. Their names are Matthew and Tabatha Sathers, I think its okay to say that publically because its on the TIBCS site.

I don't believe they owned any F1 so if they bred Brady she would have had to have come from Zamira the F2 but they never said that. Zamira was such a beautiful cat I would have put that in the info about Brady or Pip, their Marble who's name is Bonafide Pip Pip Hooray. Wouldn't you brag a bit about it. Which would make Tarzan what they said an F4. So, what were they hiding or what did they gain by not giving us the registration papers. Her words exactly were, when I asked for Brady's pedigree "We actually do not have a pedgree for Brady".

I'll write the Cat and Bengal Associations tomorrow. Or call if I can find a number for someone. I'd rather talk to someone personally so they know I'm not bitching about it as much as wanting to know Tarzan's history.

Again, thanks and if any of that info makes something click and someone has a grand idea... let me know.

Jeannie.... sometimes I wonder about T, he is a little wacko but I think the bengal breed in general seems a little wacko in a very good enteraining way.
_________________

[bundles of bengals]

I'm so glad it made sense!
Playing devil's advocate here, if Zamira was the mum, maybe they just made a typo on the website by listing Brady as an F2 when it should have been F3? Or maybe they were just dabbling & didn't really understand how it works so they got mixed up what F she actually was (very bad practise but they were new breeders so maybe?).
Maybe they were so busy with the move, knew they were giving up the breeding & didn't really have it at the forefront of their minds to sort the pedigree & registration for you while all that was going on.
No excuse really but it could be the reason.
Still doesn't explain why they say they don't have a pedigree for Brady, that just sets alarm bells off...I don't know, just trying to work it all out & it doesn't make sense...

Sorry your team lost the game!
_________________
REN SLAVEN www.slavess.co.uk

[jeannie_v]

Its a little weird that I'm a Colts fan when I'm usually cheering for the underdog. I'm over it today though.

I agree that all of your devil's advocate scenarios could be true. My husband thought that too, as did Tim when I talked with him about it when I was just starting to get that nagging feeling something wasn't right. When I sat down to write the TICA and Bengal Society today to see if someone could help me. I found on the Bengal Society page and TICA's a form for filing an ethics violation and if that is what I have to do, I'm not going to. We are going to love Tarzan regardless. I don't want to be the one to ruin someones reputation.

But, I thought maybe I could talk with someone vs filing a complaint. As much as I would like to know about his Mom, I can't bring myself to have someone suspended or barred from the TIBCS or TICA. That appears to be what the outcome is.

I appreciate everyones help though. Unless I can hack into TICA its going to be a mystery forever. He's such a pretty guy. If the question is if he's an F4 or an F3. I'm going with F4, although he is so banana nuts sometimes I wonder if his dad is also his grandpa Today he had Boo's ear in his teeth, biting and pulling. Poor Boo was crying out. I was so mad at the little devil. This was right after he lept to the middle of my back to bite on my sweatshirt hood. I can't believe we find him so funny, but he is

Well if you have a grand idea at some point, let me know. Oh well, I still would have liked to know.
_________________