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 Post subject: new diagnosis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:53 am 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:17 am
Posts: 29
Location: Bucks
Hi, my 7mth old Bengal has had diarrhea ever since we bought him and after a month or so our other cat (an 11mth old tonkinese) also started developing problems. We did a standard poo test which came back positive for Giardia. We treated with panacur and metronodizole but the poo problem was still there. Finally I requested a PCR test from the vet which came back positive for TF and corona virus. I had to tell the vet that I thought he had TF and she was very resistant to the idea. When the diagnosis came through I spoke to another vet on the phone and she said there was no treatment for TF. Again I had to tell her that there was a treatment and that it was called ronizidole. I am surprised at the ignorance of vets in terms of diagnosis and treatment of the problem. Also it lets breeders off the hook if their cats have diarrhea because they are visually inspected and passed as 'vet checked' without any mention of these virusses. My Bengal came from a large and well known cattery in the West Midlands. I'm sure the breeder must have had an inkling that all was not well? Grrrrr (on several counts) :evil:

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 Post subject: Re: new diagnosis
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:54 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:12 pm
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Location: Scotland - Paisley
janebayler@btinternet.com wrote:
I'm sure the breeder must have had an inkling that all was not well? Grrrrr (on several counts) :evil:


Not only do some breeders have an inkling, there are some that know full well their cats are infected and use tricks such as feeding raw or high fibre diets such as hairball remedies to mop up the gut and mask the problem.

Then the unsuspecting owner does not feed that food and the runs return the breeder claims it is the diet change that has caused it or put it down to "Bengal Belly" a term probably coined by these same breeders as a further defence against them doing the right thing and getting rid of the source of infection.

Of course these breeders know that you are not going to have the kitten screened for TF during the first health check, and can then deny any responsibility when at a later date the kitten IS tested and found positive.

I think when people are paying as much as a months wages for a kitten then they have every right to expect that kitten to be free of TF and other similar infections, after all the reason most of us are willing to pay such prices is because we want to know that the kitten has been given the best possible start.

IMO the registration bodies such as Tica & GCCF should be taking the issue on board and shutting breeders down who pass on infected kitten until such time that they prove they have eradicated the problem!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:21 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK
Louise-paisley wrote:
IMO the registration bodies such as Tica & GCCF should be taking the issue on board and shutting breeders down who pass on infected kitten until such time that they prove they have eradicated the problem!


The problem is that TICA and the GCCF are primarily registration bodies, they rely on registrations to survive.
Whilst they do have guidelines and disciplinary procedures, they do not really want to ban or suspend anyone as they rely on registrations of kittens to make money.
They keep well out of legal disputes too. I would doubt they would get involved in TF either, as it is a common pedigree cattery problem.

As far as a kitten with TF or Giardia or any other infectious cause goes, it is very difficult to "prove" that the kitten had the disease when it came from the breeder. Changing of food, environment and stress can cause diarrhoea too.
Even when a disease like TF is most likely contracted at the breeder's cattery, then how can that be "proven" a few weeks or months down the line. This is where it becomes a grey area of dispute, with owners blaming breeders and breeders blaming owners.

I think for potential owners, then read the kitten contract very carefully and if not satisfied with its contents, speak to the breeder and walk away if the answers given are not reassuring.
Anything that is not covered, will rarely be covered later should the eventuality arise, no matter how "friendly" the breeder appears prior to the sale taking place. Of course there are some very ethical lovely breeders out there, who will always stand by their owners and their kittens no matter what is covered by their contract, but never "assume" that to be the case.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:52 pm 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:17 am
Posts: 29
Location: Bucks
Hi, interested to read both your posts. I certainly did do the rounds with the breeder and had the exact experience you described. It is immensely frustrating as it is a very unpleasant problem to deal with and I am dreading the ordeal of getting both my kitties medication down them, but relieved as well to have a diagnosis. Breeder never offered to take kitty back or help us resolve the problem but to be honest I really got the clear idea she was breeding for profit as opposed to love and there is a difference. It is a shame that inexperienced buyers don't know what to look for. She also mentioned that she weaned the kittens early which now would ring alarm bells - weaning early is often an attempt to prevent the passing on of the corona virus from mother to kiittens but considered rather inhumane and problematic in terms of socialisation issues later on. I do love our 9 mth kitty so much but he is an eccentric little thing - quite timid still and with some weird habits like suckling my daughters blanket. What to do?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:39 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:12 pm
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Location: Scotland - Paisley
Suckling a blanket is not weird nor unusual, it is very common in all breeds.

Toshi used to suckle my neck when he first came, thankfully he does not do that now as the associated kneading with the paws on the neck was really painful.

Having said that he does still suckle on the inside of my arms - when I lay on the couch watching TV he will curl up beside me and suckle and knead the soft skin in the inside of my elbow. It is still painful there but not as bad as on the neck and I grit my teeth and bare it because he clearly feels quite contented. He is 10 months old by the way ;)

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 Post subject: suckling on blanket
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:34 pm 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:17 am
Posts: 29
Location: Bucks
Again that's great to know. He is a very sweet little boy really and I do love him. Although he is not affectionate in the conventional sense he follows me everywhere and even hides under the bed at night and pops out to join us when he thinks we're asleep (usually about 30 secs after we turn out the light). So cute!

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 10:43 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
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Location: Leicestershire, UK
Jane, I have sent you a private message.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:17 am
Posts: 29
Location: Bucks
Hi Lollo, I'm sorry I didn't receive your PM. Would you be able to re-send it? Many thanks, Jane.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:56 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:50 am
Posts: 605
Location: Kent
Mmm, this has been the second report on a few weeks just on this forum about a kitten positive for Giardia, TF and Corona. I would really hope whoever this breeder is, he/she has taken note, and is doing something about it by now!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 8:45 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
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Location: UK
Zoekie wrote:
Mmm, this has been the second report on a few weeks just on this forum about a kitten positive for Giardia, TF and Corona. I would really hope whoever this breeder is, he/she has taken note, and is doing something about it by now!


Is it the same one?

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:21 pm 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 10:17 am
Posts: 29
Location: Bucks
Well I have told the breeder I got our kitty from and said that she should look at the forum as there are breeders on this forum who have successfully eradicated these virusses from their colonies. I received no reply although my message was supportive and non-judgmental. I think the breeding and showing of Bengals must be very challenging if you do it right. The medication and vet visits just for my two have been very expensive and time consuming. I have heard that with Giardia for example, which is a very difficult virus to get rid of, that catteries often need to be steam cleaned as well as the cats treated with metronidizol (a very nasty and bitter tasting medicine that is very difficult to get down them). Takes a huge commitment. The TF, which is spread mostly by litter trays but also by oral/rectal mutual grooming, requires a scrupulous attitude towards hygiene and administering some more horrible medicine that cats hate. Question - do some less scrupulous breeders skimp on the time, commitment and expense needed to raise healthy litters? Interested to hear your thoughts.

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PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:33 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:12 pm
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Location: Scotland - Paisley
janebayler@btinternet.com wrote:
Question - do some less scrupulous breeders skimp on the time, commitment and expense needed to raise healthy litters? Interested to hear your thoughts.


Does the pope wear a funny hat?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:47 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:50 am
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Location: Kent
Sorry, I'm probably wrong in assuming it is the same breeder in both cases, just thought I remembered the other one was also based in the West Midlands :oops:

I would just like to imagine once a breeder has actually received confirmation of all these infections being present in a breeding population, he/she would make every effort to try and eradicate it, so hopefully there are now at least one or two breeders out there working hard to eradicate these diseases from their catteries!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK
Zoekie wrote:
Sorry, I'm probably wrong in assuming it is the same breeder in both cases, just thought I remembered the other one was also based in the West Midlands :oops:



Don't worry, it would not surprise me if it was and it would also not surprise me if it wasn't.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 10:01 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
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Location: Leicestershire, UK
Jane,

Have sent another PM... my other one was showing as still awaiting collection.

Let me know if you don't receive this one.

Lollo

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