As you may have seen in my other posting, my cats were diagnosed with Giardia and treated back in December, and after treatment, their stool came back negative, but diarrhea symptoms persisted. I finally found a way to test them for TF (it is very rare in the U.S., my vet hadn't even heard of it), and it came back positive. So they had both Giardia and TF when I got them. I can be as mad at the breeder as I want, but it's not going to help my current situation. I've implored her to tell any cat owner that came out of her establishment to test as to not spread the problem further, and she says she has, but I don't know her clients, so it's impossible for me to verify. The kittens are just about 6 months old.

There is no FDA approved treatment for TF in the U.S. Ronidazole is not moderated here. After the vet did research, he found that almost all cases of TF clear up in 2 years on its own, though the cat may continue to be a carrier. Yet, his consultation of literature and other vets found that the potential side effects of Ronidazole far outweigh the health risks of TF. The neural toxicity of the drug is high, with seizures and inability to walk listed as most likely symptoms. This scares me to death. I know a ton of people are going to come on here and say, "we treated our cats with Ronidazole and there were no side effects", but because there is no FDA moderation of the drug or dosing in the U.S.A., I do not currently feel comfortable going down that route. I would rather smell their awful poop and follow them around and clean their feet for 2 years, and avoid contact with other cats for their entire life, than put them at risk for permanent neural damage from mis-dosing. Their health is excellent and all research (and vet resources) points to no impact of TF on general health.

So I have two paths:

1. Give them the treatment, risk long term neural damage (potentially never being able to live with myself if that happens )
2. Manage symptoms with food, retest after symptoms subside, avoid all contact with other cats until (if ever) proven that it is out of their system

I ask that if you're going to contribute on this thread, please do so in a gentle manner. I've seen the way that people get criticized here for their decisions or thoughts, and I just want it to be an open discussion where people contribute with their own thoughts. Obviously, myself and others, if we come here, have only our cats' best interest as our utmost #1 priority - if it starts to get hostile or controlling, I won't continue to post here. I'm struggling enough with this situation, I would prefer for this conversation not be another source of stress.

-Sarah

Here are some newer pics of my bro Bengals (TJ - silver/charcoal, Mackey - pale gold/brown)

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First off your kittens are BEAUTIFUL! Secondly, both of my cats just finished their treatment for tf and both are perfectly healthy. When I say just finished Jasper completed his on the 24th and BB on the 28th. I was like you and put it off because I was terrified of side effects. I feel terrible to say this but I have had BB since she was a kitten and I have such a strong bond with her that when I gave her the first dose I freaked myself out so bad that I had a panic attack! It was horrible, im not sure if it was because she didn't have symptoms and Jasper did, but it sent me over the edge. I also agree with you that vets here are not knowledgeable about tf, in fact I have found myself at three vets about this and only the cat specialist knew about it. My only reassurance came from contacting uc davis small animal clinic. They are part of the teaching school and gave me a lot of confidence with going through with the treatment. I was told that tf is by far not rare in the states but commonly misdiagnosed as giardia because they look very similar and have some of the same symptoms. Also because people don't like to pay $200 a pop for the test and then $200 for the ronidazole. They also told me that the two biggest myths or rather outdated views is that it will take care of itself within months/years and that ronidazole is very dangerous. It is not 100% safe but there is not one medicine that is, it is not controlledby the fda but the proper eeffective dose has been found and the side effects have been greatly reduced. Another thing is it can cause permanent damage to the intestine and they can have life long problems if not treated and can flare up during times of stress. I don't want to push you one way or the other and I COMPLETELY understand your worries, but maybe finding a vet that knows about the treatment and will help you make an informed decision with current research will help.

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That was a very helpful post. Thank you so much for sharing your experience with this. UC Davis is not too far from where I live (San Francisco), so getting them in touch with my vet could be a good option.

Yes that sounds like a great game plan. I do have to say that I think my girl was the one infected orginally but her diahrrea cleared up when she was a few months over a year old. I thought it was due to finding the foods that worked for her. Jasper's stool was normal when we got him but took a turn a few weeks/months after we got him. I thought once again it was food related and tried putting him on a raw diet. Even that didn't clear it up. It was so bad about a month ago that he would leave blood stains where ever he had been laying and he stopped using his litter. It was a nightmare that I am glad is over! I was cleaning the litter boxes this afternoon and told my husband I never thought I would be so happy over poo! I really hope your vet can get more information and a more current view of tf. Many people say it doesn't effect their health but Jasper is so happy now! He plays like crazy and runs wild, he was over weight from being inactive but had lost a lot in the last month. Our vet was extremely impressed with his new and improved figure! I would imagine the constant diahrrea can cause loads of stress. So it does make a difference with more than just poo.

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Hey your kitties are so beautiful - lovely pics too!

My two had TF - i did as you have - told the breeder but I'll never know whether they contacted all the other owners or not.
I dont think your vet is correct by saying it will clear up after 2 years - the only way to kill the TF is with RDZ, I'm glad bkilgore is in the states and has been able to give you lots of country related advise.
I count myself as lucky that I had a vet who listened to the research I'd found through the website and did his own research. We had by two kittens on it asap and I was pleased to see that after one course of treatment they were negative.

Good luck - hope it all goes well.

Sorry to hear about your kittens. RDZ is this same in the UK ie unlicensed but the vet can get hold of it easily.

I understand your concerns completely, I tested my cats a couple of times for TF and dreaded the results everytime, not because of the fact they might be positive but because if they were I would have to treat for it. Thankfully I've only had negatives.

In the forum there are lots of people that have dealt with TF, sadly too many, pet owners who should not have been given this problem in the first place.

Tf is not rare, it's just that some vets simply are on educated on it, as far as I'm aware it is said that TF was bought to the UK from the USA due to importing cats.

My personal opinion is the cats need treating, it is a parasite and sheds intermittently, yes it may resolve but never properly. Times of stress will cause the shedding again.

There's lots of threads and stories on here re people treating and having good results, in fact I've not read any I can think of where side effects were seen, apart from maybe the odd small one....but I can't remember really.

I understand you feeling worried about posting on here, but please understand we are ALL cat lovers and only want what is best for the cats and their long term health, sometimes that can cause high emotions.....but you will get the support and help you need x

Yes I also treated my two kittens in December with ronidazole and both are fine now.

The fear used to be of neurological problems years ago when the dose given was higher. Now it has been revised and less ronidazole per kg of weight of kitten/cat, I believe there have been NO reported problems with the new dosage.

Good luck with getting them treated and on the way to recovery. TF is horrible for both kittens and owners :(

Lisa
x

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Lollo

I also wanted to add that a breeder isn't necessarily at fault for sending kittens away with TF.... Often the problem only surfaces after a stressful incident, which moving to a new home is.

It is how they deal with the knowledge that there was a problem that matters.

If they now test their breeding cats and treat the issues and warn previous owners then they are being responsible...

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Lollo

Hi all,

Thank you for all your kind and helpful responses. I worked with the vet and we got some RZD, but I've been traveling a couple weekends the last few months and am waiting until I am home for 14 days straight (which will start this Sunday) to start the course of medicine (I wouldn't leave it up to my friend who stays with them to do it, I know how difficult it is).

2 things:

1. Vet told me to wear gloves when administering the pills, as the capsules can have carcinogenic effects on humans... What? I didn't read through all the stuff on here but has anyone else been told that? Makes me even more nervous to give something to my cats that can cause cancer in humans.

2. How the heck do I give them these pills. I could absolutely not give them pills before, with the help of a large man wrapping them in a towel and pinning to ground. I even ground it up and laced a sardine with it, but they can tell right away if the food has medicine in it and turn their nose up. I got some pill pockets and have been feeding them to them to get used to them, and they really like them (even though they don't like any other treats??), but I bet the second I put that capsule in it they'll chew it up for a second and spit it out.

Also just curious on a side not - can you guys pick up your bengals and hold them for a period of time? One is better than the other, but both dislike it and squirm as soon as they get picked up (the one who likes it less literally bucks and scratches until he's put down). My friend with a bengal has been persistent in holding his kitty until the point of discomfort, and he is now good at being held and shoulder trained; however, I have a hard time mentally (and physically) forcing my cats to be held for more than about 5-10 seconds. This might feed into the absolutely impossibility of being given pills but... I don't know. My bengal kitty with my parents isn't much better at being held. It doesn't bug me, but would help in times like this and when I have to transport them somewhere. They're super super cuddly on their own terms though (in morning and evening), and all over me whenever I'm home. Perfect kitties for me :)

Firstly, if you have had the Ronidazole for this long it may not still be a therapeutic dose. Doses need to be calculated at their current weight. This is very important! It is not just one pill to treat all cats, the dose is very specific on their weight. I think they are still kittens so a month can make a huge difference in the dose required.

I was told to wear gloves for the same reason. The chances are minuscule but they have to tell you. Large quantities of the drug can be considered carcinogen, these are very small doses. I chose not to wear gloves because I have poor peripheral sensation so found I could work better without. I think they, legally, have to tell you.

The drug is usually supplied in a capsule. It is usually a powder. The capsule should be given whole, not mixed in food or sprinkled etc.. It tastes REALLY bitter and could be deactivated by saliva. There are various ways of pilling cats. You can get special syringes that hold onto the pill at the end... Pill givers... My Bengal is near on impossible to pill. I use a pill giver when I give him medication but I often have to sneak up on him. It often takes two. One to hold his front legs firmly and one to put the pill giver in his mouth an squeeze. When I had to give him Ronidazole, I was able to hide the capsule in his food as he tends to scoop wet food, doesn't work with actual pills because they smell funny but it worked with the capsules. It's risky though so I usually don't recommend it. It's hard..... My bengal is like a wild animal when it comes to pilling but I can carry him around all day (I don't because he's too heavy!lol). He tries to grab your hand away from his mouth with his claws, hence the other person to hold his front legs. He is freakishly strong! You can try the towel wrap approach, this often works well.... Kitty burrito!

My Tonks are so easy to pill!

Good luck!

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Lollo

After the first few days one of my cats didn't protest too much but the other cat (BB) threw a major fit everytime. My husband had to wrap her tightly in a towel and hold her on the kitchen table while I tried multiple times to get it in her mouth. It was a hellish 14 days but we made it! She is also one that doesn't want to be held! She is the biggest lap cat but holding is a no go, Jasper doesn't mind to be held and he didn't fight.

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justbumming, I also live in SF and would be happy to help you out administering the medication (thought at this point it's been over a month and you've hopefully treated them already). I'm not a vet by any means, but I did go through treating my Bengal in January with RDZ for TF, and I got quite good at pilling our cat. Luckily our vet (Presidio Way out in Laurel Heights) nailed the diagnosis the first time I brought in Archer for his recurring diarrhea, and got us the treatment promptly. They also know a lot about TF and the treatment there. Shoot me a a PM about where you got your cats, as I'm curious if it was the same cattery as me (I've told them about it, and they said they've gone through a full treatment of the cattery now.)

As far as the neural concern, it's really just a side effect to keep an eye out for, I believe that those side effects were more common in the earlier days when the dosages weren't as precise. You can just keep an eye out on your cats while they are being treated, keep playing with them to check their coordination, and you should be fine with no side effects. I didn't use gloves when administering the pills, as the danger is only if the power touches you, and only in larger doses. As far as pilling, the vet showed me when I left the exact way to do it, and gave Archer his first pill. You just have to be quick and firm with them, and it shouldn't be too bad. It's much easier with two people, but I did it by myself several times. My process was as follows:
1. Put cat on the counter.
2. Grab him by the scruff with my left hand firmly so he stays in place.
3. With right hand, hold pill between thumb and pointer finger.
4. Use middle finger to prod at the base of his mouth and wiggle it open.
5. As soon as he opens his mouth, raise your wrist and lower your fingers to keep the mouth open.
6. At this point, your cat will be hating you and flapping their tongue around trying to lick things, put the pill towards the back of their mouth, centered, and then quickly close their mouth with your right hand.
7. Use small water dropper/syringe to put a few cc's of water in the mouth quickly afterwards from the corner to make them swallow
8. Blow lightly on their nose, and rub their throat lightly as well with your free fingers that aren't keeping their mouth closed. This will stimulate swallowing. Also they will start to try and lick their lips/nose a little forcing them to swallow too (be sure to allow for slight movement in their mouth to lick, but not enough to spit out the pill).
9. After you have seen them swallow visually, promptly give them a treat to eat, causing them to not be as upset, but also causing them to swallow more and move it down their digestive system.

If you have a second person, have one person hold the cat by the scruff (and keep them from rabbit kicking and squirming) and have the other person use two hands for the pilling (one hand to open the mouth, and one to put the pill in). If you move swiftly and decisively, this should work well. Start to finish was probably around 30 seconds if I got it the first time (~80%). The problems come about if you are taking to long, or they spit it out and you have to redo it, and the pill starts to melt. Don't be afraid to be firm with your cat, and don't freak out if they whine or howl, they're cats, they love to make things difficult. Good Luck, and feel free to reach out me via pm if you need some help.

Can you guys please report the breeders on the forum, maybe this thread?
I think it would really helpful, so when a new kitten arrives to someones home (stress) and the breeder says of they have diarrhea because of stress. People can figure out it might be TF be the name of the breeder.

Thank you.