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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:23 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 2927
Location: West Midlands, UK
Suntouched wrote:

At the end of the day, there will always be arguments about HCM as no-one will agree all the time, but I think encouraging breeders to get involved in conversations and doing more screening is likely to have more effect than lambasting them, attacking them and so alienating them?
For me, the carrot works better than the stick every time! :wink:


My sentiments completely Karen, well put :)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 12:46 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:19 pm
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Location: Wiltshire, England
Excellent posts Tracey and Karen.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 1:09 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 2:08 pm
Posts: 5
Location: Burford
Thanks Sue. Good post Karen, totally agree.

It is great to see pet owners and breeders that are passionate about the bengal breed and doing what they can in regards to HCM. It is all about breeders screening, educating people, people doing their research and then making their decision.

Times are hard with the recession, more so than a couple of years ago I would say, and at the moment the pet/breeding market is very quiet and being driven by price. I have had a few enquiries where owners want the best looking and cheapest bengal that they can get. Pet bengals are selling for not much more than the bengal x kittens. This barely covers the costs to raise them and certainly does not cover HCM screening costs. What we cannot do is cover this cost by raising the price of kittens. My experience over this year with some enquiries is that if people can get a kitten from somewhere else, say £50 cheaper, then they will go and do that, regardless of if the parents are HCM screened or not.

Sad but true...

Thankfully this is not always the case and on these occasions I am more than happy to keep the kitten here with me until a suitable home is found.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:31 am
Posts: 2227
Location: UK
Totally agree Tracey.

On a positive note, there is a group of breeders working together to try and get better prices for screening, so we can screen more efficiently. My last cat (x1) screening cost £241 plus travelling, so a total of around £280. We hope to get this cost reduced, find different cardio's for different areas, and encourage breeders who are currently not screening to join us. None of this is going to happen over night, but if we get the prices we are after it certainly will be more affordable by everyone, including pet owners should they wish to screen their pets.

We are also now testing for PKdeficiency, so yet another added and unexpected cost, but breeders seem to have been quite good in getting this together and testing. It is a reliable and one-off test of around £25 per cat, so more affordable and with a clear answer too.

I hope this may answer some of the worries and concerns of pet owners (and those to be). Some of us ARE trying you know! :wink: :D

Edit: Sorry...thankyou Sue!

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Last edited by Suntouched on Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:28 am
Posts: 6038
Location: UK
Suntouched wrote:
Totally agree Tracey.

On a positive note, there is a group of breeders working together to try and get better prices for screening, so we can screen more efficiently. My last cat (x1) screening cost £241 plus travelling, so a total of around £280. We hope to get this cost reduced, find different cardio's for different areas, and encourage breeders who are currently not screening to join us. None of this is going to happen over night, but if we get the prices we are after it certainly will be more affordable by everyone, including pet owners should they wish to screen their pets.

We are also now testing for PKdeficiency, so yet another added and unexpected cost, but breeders seem to have been quite good in getting this together and testing. It is a reliable and one-off test of around £25 per cat, so more affordable and with a clear answer too.

I hope this may answer some of the worries and concerns of pet owners (and those to be). Some of us ARE trying you know! :wink: :D



Good to hear xx

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:29 am
Posts: 243
Location: Berkshire
It's good to hear from breeders who are working hard to do the best possible job. Anyone who is screening annually is setting a great example. Of course screening is only part of the story albeit an important part. Even though it may only give a snapshot of a moment in time, if that reveals a cat that needs to be retired from the breeding programme it will save a lot of potential heartache for breeders and owners alike not to mention the poor cats and kittens! Sharing results can also give a bigger picture. Yes breeding is an incredibly challenging job if you are doing it well. Nobody is forced to do it either. I applaud all who choose to do the right things and stand up and be counted for it. I think that's so important. People want to copy what the majority do so the more who talk about screening and best practice as routine, the more others will start to follow. You who are doing it right need to be the opinion formers and leaders of your community. Well done for screening and for speaking about it in such a sensitive way. :D

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:41 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:12 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: Scotland - Paisley
I think the breeders using screening as a marketing tool actually involves a bit more than they post results, it is aimed at those who are using screening of young cats to say they don't have a HCM issue when they are knowingly using extremely high risk lines..

And as has been said, the entire website is a marketing tool in any case, I see no reason what so ever why someone who is trying to ensure the problem is minimised should not make that fact clear - it may not be a guarantee nor foolproof but at this moment screening is all we have and an awful lot better than doing nothing!

Either way, my point was not really about displaying screening results (I think public disclosure of results IS quite an important step, the ideal would be via the FAB website and include bad results as well as good).

My point was if all the breeders who ARE screening had upfront information about HCM, the gravity of not doing whatever we can to minimise it and how important it is that whoever the reader decides to buy from they should be scanning and able to offer proof then the websites combined would be a very powerful tool to ensure that potential buyers are made aware before they get to the point of putting a deposit down.

Not so much a marketing tool, more like an advertisement for HCM awareness. If it is featured more toward the front page of the websites rather than toward the end people are going to reach when they have decided to buy it would have more impact on the buyer because they would see it time and time again as they flip through different breeder sites.

At the end of the day HCM exists, I don't think breeders who are working to reduce it should be frightened to inform people of how serious an issue it is - although it seems that some are - The more breeders who hold up their hands and say "Look, HCM IS a problem in the breed, but WE are doing everything we can to solve it not just ignoring it to save some money" the better surely?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 1:32 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2009 7:14 am
Posts: 296
Location: U.S.A.
Have a question about the FAB list. It appears to me that it is only comprised of UK input. Is there one for the US?

Also, I couldn't find a positive list because there isn't one? Really? How is it that I've read members researching the lines to asses the risk if there is not a positive list to go by?

I do recall a breeder making a very detailed and informative post about what they were doing to minimize the risk, and I do very well remember they stated even with the best of intentions/programmes that it is not a matter of will HCM creep up someday in their lines, more to the point it is a matter of when is it going to happen. With that said I would hope that even the most ethical breeders would make this public information, so why is there no info?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 2:42 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:12 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: Scotland - Paisley
Dan wrote:

Also, I couldn't find a positive list because there isn't one? Really? How is it that I've read members researching the lines to asses the risk if there is not a positive list to go by?


Therein lays the problem, the whole issue is shrouded in deceit and secrecy, negative scan results do not prove anything other than the problem is not YET visible, they do nothing really to help someone eliminate risk from the lines - but almost everyone who scans is more than willing share them.

Positive scans results are conclusive, they state the problem exists categorically, they enable you to eliminate a problem line from breeding, they enable someone to work out if the lines they work with need closer inspection, they are the most helpful thing we have at the moment for reducing the problem - but practically NO ONE will share them.

Of course the problem is that if a breeder admits they have a positive there will likely be a dozen other breeders stabbing them in the back telling everyone to avoid them like the plague.

If someone can figure out a way to make honesty the best course of action we would stand a good chance of getting the problem fixed I expect ;)

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:59 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:41 pm
Posts: 2367
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland
Dan wrote:
Have a question about the FAB list. It appears to me that it is only comprised of UK input. Is there one for the US?

Also, I couldn't find a positive list because there isn't one? Really? How is it that I've read members researching the lines to asses the risk if there is not a positive list to go by?


there was mention of an organisation that tests cats for HCM at the lecture i attended where cardiologists informed breeders and pet owners about HCM, but for the life of me, i can't remember it now. i'll let you know when i get home.

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 Post subject: Re: HCM DISCUSSION
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 4:49 pm 
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Senior Bengal

Joined: Fri Jun 19, 2015 9:26 pm
Posts: 59
Can anyone tell me how I get my Amara screened? I just bought her but the lady I bought her off is ignoring my texts. I have Amara booked into vets to have her unusually large mammary glands looked at but the owner is telling me nothing about her history, as vet needs to know if she had a recent litter. So I am now worrying about her health as a whole... So I also want her screened.

How much will it cost? Am from England.


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 Post subject: Re: HCM DISCUSSION
PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:54 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8017
This is an old post, but hopefully, someone will come on who can answer your question better. Your vet who examines your bengal may refer you to a vet who specializes in cardiology. These types of screenings may run into the hundreds of $$$ in the states -- convert that to pounds for the UK. You should be able to get an estimate of what it will cost to test for HCM and then you can decide what you want to do. I'm not sure the previous owner provided great medical care for your new kitty, as you should have asked for the medical records -- and if you got her from a rescue, they should have gotten them. Makes things a lot easier for the new vet to know some history.


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