It is currently Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:12 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 177 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:20 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:12 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: Scotland - Paisley
anniepaint wrote:
http://www.fabcats.org/hcm/

In Maine Coon and Ragdolls there is about a 30% chance of a cat being HCM positive. I wonder if it's similar in Bengals?


I would guess higher myself

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 6:31 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:29 am
Posts: 243
Location: Berkshire
Hmm that's interesting Louise, when I was setting up insurance for my new rescue cats I checked the price for Bengals compared to Bengal cross and it was quite a bit higher for Bengals. I can't remember exactly how much but those actuaries at the insurance companies are pretty good at assessing risk. Cross breeds are a better risk according to them.

_________________
Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:57 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
junglerose wrote:
The prevalence of HCM in humans is quoted at 0.2-0.5% which is a more reasonable figure


Is prevelance not different to risk though?

Prevelance is worked out using the current positives.

How is the risk in bengals worked out as you don't really know how many positives there ar? So are working on the basis of some guesswork and some interlectual reasoning.

I would think it hard to compare the two really.

_________________
Lollo
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 9:15 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:29 am
Posts: 243
Location: Berkshire
Yes but if people are refusing to screen, fiddling the results by screening only when the cat is under 2 years and then petting out and being secretive about positives what else can you do? Insurance companies are getting claims from their customers so they will know more about prevalence. Bearing in mind also that not everyone is insured. GET INSURANCE if you have a Bengal folks! Until people screen as routine and share results and stop covering up when they have dead cats there will be no progress and that can only damage the breed. For goodness sake all you people - you know who you are - think about why you wanted to breed Bengals. Did 't you LOVE Bengals once? What happened? Can you not afford to do the right thing? If you can't afford it for goidness sake retire and STOP breeding sick cats. Deep breath ..... Rant over! But I actually do love Bengals and hate people who are harming them for the sake of their own egos. I don't care about your rosettes but I do care about the health of your cats.

_________________
Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:18 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
Not sure if that last post was aimed at my previous post?? :?:

I just meant to see if comparing a risk determined from the limited data was fair to compare against human prevalence which is created from exact diagnosis figures and actual population.

With regards to insurance, my Tonkinese are the same price as my bengal. I think all pedigree are consider higher risk than all moggies and cross breeds. Due to a lot of other factors. Ironic really cause my moggie cost me far more at the vets than all of my pedigree's put together and that includes erradicating TF from my house :shock:

_________________
Lollo
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:20 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
With regards to signs and symptoms of HCM, i have nursed babies with HCM (amongst other cardiomyopathies and many other congenital heart defects) and it is not pleasent in the slightest so my heart goes out to anyone who has dealt with it or is dealing with it.

:cry:

_________________
Lollo
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 10:56 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:29 am
Posts: 243
Location: Berkshire
Lollo I was just taking your comment about not really knowing how many positives there are as a starting point. I find it really frustrating that there is a lot of secrecy and covering up of positive results so it makes it very difficult to know what is happening.

_________________
Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:09 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
anniepaint wrote:
Lollo I was just taking your comment about not really knowing how many positives there are as a starting point. I find it really frustrating that there is a lot of secrecy and covering up of positive results so it makes it very difficult to know what is happening.


That's okay, it didn't really seem to follow on from what i asked.

The trouble with not knowing how many positives there are as i can see is that there are far more pet bengals out there that we will never know are positive. It will be so hard to give an actual prevelance only potential risk which i don't think are the same (although it is a start, i agree).

Even if all breeders started screening now and results were collated, unless pets were screened as well (which i don't think should happen), then we will never have accurate numbers. It would be nice if there was a single test that could be done to say yes or no.

_________________
Lollo
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 11:10 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:23 am
Posts: 839
Location: West Sussex
I have just insured Benji with Vetsmedicover as I am only interested in covering any huge vets bills as the result of accident or illness.

They cover up to £10,000 per year on a lifetime basis provided that your cat is under 8 years old at the start of the policy for a flat rate of £14 per month for any cat.

.......this is probably not the right place for this but I thought it was relevant! :D

Heather


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 4:30 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:12 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: Scotland - Paisley
Risk and prevalence are two very different things..

from prevalence you could asses the risk on a population basis - so if there was a 30% prevalence you could say the average risk you face is 3 in 10..

However, I think when people talk about risk of HCM in bengals what they mostly want to know is the risk of their cat having it, this will vary by a HUGE degree, it could be anywhere from 0% to 100% - neither parent affected 0% (or very near), 1 parent affected 50%, both parents affected 100%.

The issue is further complicated by data being missing, for example the parent status may be unknown but its brother or sister may be positive - this would be a different risk than the parent being affected..

I have no idea how these more ambiguous risks are assessed, or what percentage is assigned to them, but if anyone knows I would REALLY REALLY REALLY like to know so PM me ;)

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 4:41 pm 
Offline
Bengal Cat

Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 34
Just found out that my furkids's dad was HCM Negative thank god, I know that Mum was also screened and is negative.

Here he is http://www.willowfrostbengals.com/page7.html

and this is where I found his HCM screening (ctrl + f and look for shapeshifter)

http://www.authenticats.co.uk/Our-Studs.html

been watching this thread and to be honest it has frightened me to death.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 5:04 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 11:31 am
Posts: 2227
Location: UK
garethmk1 wrote:
Just found out that my furkids's dad was HCM Negative thank god, I know that Mum was also screened and is negative.

Here he is http://www.willowfrostbengals.com/page7.html

and this is where I found his HCM screening (ctrl + f and look for shapeshifter)

http://www.authenticats.co.uk/Our-Studs.html

been watching this thread and to be honest it has frightened me to death.


This is good news, and great that the breeders are screening.
The HCM 'clear' screen is for that screen only and only tells you what the heart is like at that time. It is always to be hoped that the cat remains the same after, and it is good to hear about another responsible breeder who screens too. :wink:

_________________
Best Wishes,
Karen <UK>
http://www.suntouchedbengals.com
http://www.bengalbreedersunited.co.uk
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 7:04 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2011 8:29 am
Posts: 243
Location: Berkshire
Can I ask how many breeders show the actual scanning certs to purchasers and is there a way to tell if these are valid, i.e. not forgeries. Would you have to contact the cardiologist? I am not questioning your post garethmk1 by the way, that's great to find you have a responsible breeder. Just wondering because no one has ever offered to show me the certificate. Would this be good practice? Would an experienced buyer expect to see it? Also what about things like PK def? Are there certificates for that to show a kitten is negative? It's awkward to ask for proof of what someone is telling you, especially if the breeder is nice and friendly which I guess they all are when they are selling you something. So it would be nice if it was offered as standard without having to ask. Anyway just a buyers perspective. I have heard such horrible stories of sharp practice on the part of some breeders especially relating to HCM and PK def. Buyer beware and all that.

_________________
Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:21 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:12 pm
Posts: 3399
Location: Scotland - Paisley
I don't think it is routinely done.. but then maybe some that claim they scan do not.. I know of at least one breeders who claims the cats are scanned but the only scan they ever had was by the breeder who supplied them with the cats.

I think the only way to authenticate is to contact the relevant cardiologist and query the certificate, I think there has been cases where certificates have been altered to make it appear they were valid when they were not.

If the results of the scan are published on the FAB website then I think its safe to say they are genuine, but it seems very few are willing to do that for whatever reason

_________________
Image
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:19 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2008 1:19 pm
Posts: 1916
Location: Wiltshire, England
Lou

Cardiologists may not give out any information to queries as to whether certain cats have been scanned. Client confidentiality and all that.

_________________
Best wishes, Sue
Chataya - United Kingdom Tonkinese Breeder
(retired Bengal breeder)


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 177 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by meemonkey