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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 1:17 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Only appears to cover carb content really, but worth a read non the less.

Posting the link does always seem to make it more readable :D

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 12:39 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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junglerose wrote:
I have read that it is the high fibre content of foods that counteracts the effects of the TF and improves the consistency of the stool.
Therefore it matters little where the high fibre content comes from ie some raw diets or some commercial cat food.
Bradg has had good effects form using RC food, others have had good effects from using raw diets.
As chronic diarrhoea is uncomfortable for the cat and the constant intestinal hurry and leakage of nutrients is not good for its health, then any diet that alleviates the symptoms is going to benefit the cat. So any recommendation from someone who has "been there, done that" should perhaps be tried and not dismissed out of hand.
Of course diet will not cure TF, medication is needed, but just like pain killers will not cure a broken leg, the patient will thank you a lot for the relief from pain.

Any potential kitten owner whose breeder is recommending such diets needs to be aware that some breeders will advocate raw or specialised foods like hairball control, not because they feel their cats and kittens are better on them but because they mask the symptoms of TF and other gut parasites. Once home with their new owners the problems in the kitten can then become apparent.

Of course specialised diets are needed at times but young healthy kittens should probably be on either normal kitten or normal adult food or a raw food diet because the breeder has researched it properly, not because other foods "do not agree with them".



i agree elaine, having watched my boy suffer with diarrhoea for quite some time before he was diagnosed with IBS, i agree whatever works to stop it is a godsend, it was painful and very distressing for shiloh.... for us at the time shiloh was on bozita and raw meat and prawns through trial and error we cut out bozita and prawns and added pumpkin and Psyllium Husk Powder to his raw and he rarely has attacks now.... xx

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:24 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 9:13 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Atlanta, GA, US
just now catching up...

brianj12 wrote:
Brad. That reputation was purchased, not earned. Surely you can see that? And if there is a difference in attitude it has to do with how many regional marketing dollars were spent. Heck, you yourself called your vet a "Royal Canin Vet" and the nutritionist a "Royal Canin Nutritionist". How scary is that? How objective would you suppose they are?


You misinterpreted what I said.
I have my own local vet clinic that I've been using for over 25 years, with several top vets in the area (they are even the official vet clinic for the county's K9 unit). I also perform my own research, and occasionally get information/research from my sister that works for a major vet pharma company.
The RC folks that assisted was a favor I called in to a neighbor that knows someone that works there. She is a DVM and PhD, and works for RC as a nutritionalist. After figuring out that the pumpkin rememdy worked I consulted with the RC vet and it just so happened that they make a dry food with psyllium husk (and other fiber sources) in a couple of their products. I feel she is objective enough to have recommended anything, even if it wasn't RC, that met the desired content and ingredients.

I take offense that you think I'd be so dense as your inaccurate presumption suggests.

brianj12 wrote:
And for record, there is a big difference between coming in here and saying "Hey guys, this product worked well for me, I recommend it" and making all the claims that you made about this food, and getting out the pom-poms. Someone even mentioned in jest how you seemed to be a salesman for this brand. I'm sure it was meant in jest, but the observation actually carried a lot of truth in it as well. Sorry if you figured you could post whatever and it would just blindly be taken at face value. This forum wouldn't be of much value to anyone if that were the case. These are discussions, not advertisements.

I'm not advertising for them. If I had found another food with psyllium husk already in the food, I would have bought it (it probably would have been cheaper!). If you know of another dry food with psyllium husk that is cheap, PLEASE LET ME KNOW what it is and will go buy some TODAY to try out. To be quite honest, I think RC, in general, is too expensive. If it weren't for our TF bengal they'd all be on Science Diet - which I've fed my cats for my whole life and they've been fine with it. I've had one cat live 19 years on SD, and another made it to 20. It speaks for itself. Admitedly, it makes their poo more stinky though :)

Louise-paisley wrote:
Royal canin in particular are guilty of extreme marketing strategies to maximise profit, do not fool yourself into thinking they are "researching ailments and developing specialist foods" for the love of your cat, they are marketing ploys pure and simple - it is a practice driven COMPLETELY by money and nothing else.

RC does virtually zero marketing/advertising in the US. What you see on the shelf is their only marketing. I agree with the other folks that the breed-specific stuff might taking things too far and is unnecessary. But, clearly folks have had good results from those diets (folks that probably make more money than me), because they still make them - which means people are spending money on it.
Business is in business to make money. It doesn't matter if you're making cars, houses, battleships or cat food. That's a really weak argument.

Louise-paisley wrote:
http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/royalcaninrecall.htm

Cheap ingredients, poor quality control, inadequate testing = recalls, health issues and pet deaths. Just because the company has a façade of respectability and "caring" does not mean they are any different.


Gotta call you out on this one too. The melamine recall affected nearly every major pet food manufacturer. RC actually had a pretty low number of their products with the melamine issue versus other major manufacturers. If you think RC is 'cheap' then you must make a TON more money than me and can afford ultra-premium. You gotta put yourself on other folks shoes that can't afford that stuff. For someone like me, giving my animals something like RC is simply the best that I can possibly afford. (Note: We have 4 cats and 2 dogs to feed)

brianj12 wrote:
So why do we throw that obvious common sense out the window when it comes to selecting our diets for our cats?


I have exceptional common sense, have scientific research training, and have many research resources. All of my TF research was by scientific methods, as was figuring out the diet issue after treatment. Don't make assumptions - you don't know me.

miki129 wrote:
when you say it had disastrous consequences what do you mean, i understand it didnt help your boy, but disastrous consequences implies it caused other medical problems? what were they?

I meant it made his diarrhea 10 times worse and it smelled like death.

---------------
The biggest thing to convey here, is that if you cat is having diarrhea issues, give psyllium husk a try. I don't give a crap if you use the RC I suggested, metamucil, some other brand of food that has it, or cow **** & orange peels.

I saved two Bengals and one Savannah that were DAYS from being euthanized out of the kindness of my heart and I couldn't stand for them to suffer. I didn't even have room for the second bengal and savannah and set up extra kennels in my garage so I could treat them and then find them good homes. I spent nearly $2000 on the three of them.

All I was trying to do here is convey what I feel is an important piece of information that might help another cat. If it can save the life of just one cat, then that will make me happy.

Thank You to the few of you that got the message as intended. I didn't come here for thank yous or anything else - but the arguing was pretty uncalled for.

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 3:52 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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i have to agree that psyllium husk and pureed pumpkin did help my boy shiloh with runny poo, it did make it more formed.... both these things are also recommended to soften hard stools too and to help constipation in cats x

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 5:35 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:12 pm
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Location: Scotland - Paisley
bradg wrote:
just now catching up...

Louise-paisley wrote:
Royal canin in particular are guilty of extreme marketing strategies to maximise profit, do not fool yourself into thinking they are "researching ailments and developing specialist foods" for the love of your cat, they are marketing ploys pure and simple - it is a practice driven COMPLETELY by money and nothing else.

RC does virtually zero marketing/advertising in the US. What you see on the shelf is their only marketing. I agree with the other folks that the breed-specific stuff might taking things too far and is unnecessary. But, clearly folks have had good results from those diets (folks that probably make more money than me), because they still make them - which means people are spending money on it.
Business is in business to make money. It doesn't matter if you're making cars, houses, battleships or cat food. That's a really weak argument.

Louise-paisley wrote:
http://www.acreaturecomfort.com/royalcaninrecall.htm

Cheap ingredients, poor quality control, inadequate testing = recalls, health issues and pet deaths. Just because the company has a façade of respectability and "caring" does not mean they are any different.


Gotta call you out on this one too. The melamine recall affected nearly every major pet food manufacturer. RC actually had a pretty low number of their products with the melamine issue versus other major manufacturers. If you think RC is 'cheap' then you must make a TON more money than me and can afford ultra-premium. You gotta put yourself on other folks shoes that can't afford that stuff. For someone like me, giving my animals something like RC is simply the best that I can possibly afford. (Note: We have 4 cats and 2 dogs to feed)


At no point did I ever say that royal canin was cheap, maybe your scientific research method does not extend to reading... Cheap ingredients, cheap fillers, cheap fillers used to reduce costs and maximise profit, cheap fillers which are not tested for poisons because not testing saves money.

I guess it's absolutely fine that this "top quality" manufacturer poisoned cats though because other manufacturers had the same issue, of course most of them were the low end budget food manufacturers producing own label branding for supermarkets etc

No I did not say RC was cheap, in fact the opposite is true, rc is expensive. Their marketing strategy (advertising) of back handing vets to recommend it permits them to charge significantly more for the food than other brands of equal lack of quality.

Royal canin do advertise? utter nonsense, they advertise by vet kickbacks, providing vets with "kitten welcome packs" etc Targeted advertising, targeting people who visit vets regularly and thus have a better financial status, less likely to have the time or inclination to research the quality themselves and more willing to pay inflated prices for a deflated product simply because if it is on the vets shelf then "It must be good".

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PostPosted: Wed May 25, 2011 6:43 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:56 pm
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Location: Oxon
I don't know about anybody else here but I am getting pretty bored of the bickering. We all have our own experiences and opions. Lets leave it at that.

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:57 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:23 am
Posts: 119
trudint wrote:
I don't know about anybody else here but I am getting pretty bored of the bickering. We all have our own experiences and opions. Lets leave it at that.


Maybe a moderator could just close this thread?

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 8:08 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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i dont think it should be closed, its a forum, people disagree but useful information comes out of it..... if you dont like it, you dont have to read this particular thread, there are enough others to read.

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Location: Scotland - Paisley
miki129 wrote:
i dont think it should be closed, its a forum, people disagree but useful information comes out of it..... if you dont like it, you dont have to read this particular thread, there are enough others to read.


Agreed, if a thread is closed because someone has a different view to the op or another then what kind of a discussion forum is it :roll: :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:08 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Thu May 21, 2009 9:13 pm
Posts: 14
Location: Atlanta, GA, US
not necessary to lock it.... I've got thick skin. :D

I am, however, done with this thread. Its going nowhere at this point.

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PostPosted: Fri May 27, 2011 6:32 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2011 3:23 am
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Louise-paisley wrote:
miki129 wrote:
i dont think it should be closed, its a forum, people disagree but useful information comes out of it..... if you dont like it, you dont have to read this particular thread, there are enough others to read.


Agreed, if a thread is closed because someone has a different view to the op or another then what kind of a discussion forum is it :roll: :roll:


It was just a suggestion based on the post I quoted and the seemingly elevating amount of sardonic-ism and hostility within the discussion.

Forget I posted and carry on.

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 Post subject: TF & Diet
PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:29 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:42 pm
Posts: 2
As someone who has treated confirmed TF, following the uptodate guidelines provided by Jody Gookin and of course under vet supervision, with ronidazole in three cats: and failed to cure two of them of it- diet advice like this is useful. So thank you for sharing. Its important with this parasite that we share the experiences as it is not understood that well and very difficult to cure/live with.

Whilst it is very very important to be clear that diet categorically cannot rid your cat of the parasite and IMHO attempting to treat with ronidazole at the advised dosage is worth undertaking; I certainly believe modifying our diet has helped our situation.

I tried a supplement based raw diet, which I would prefer to feed them in an ideal world, but after a month of trying (with all the tricks recommended online) no one was willing to eat it and it was too expensive to maintain such wastage.

I was at my wits ends of sleepless nights cleaning the litter tray and the cats at all hours; heart broken with distress this was happening to us & exhausted. Any supplement I added- like pysllium or forti flora- to try and aid their guts in managing the parasite- made the pickiest reject their food consistently.

The vet had been pushing me for months to try Hills D/D dry (UK- and yes I think most of us are aware vets do receive commission from brands like Hills)- and being very wary of both the brand and dry food I resisted.

However, in desperation, as soon as I introduced Hills D/D as their daytime meal (I refused to make it their only food source) the improvement was literally dramatic. The stools went from unformed to soft formed in 48 hours in the cat who suffered the most with the diarrhea.

Neither the vet nor I can really explain this- whether the novel protein source just allowed their guts to heal a little and hence gain an edge on the parasite is one possibility. I've kept the D/D dry as just one of their meals a day, I feed another brand of high meat content complete wet food and meats I cook for them as the other meals on varying rotations.

I am still testing and keeping up to date on the recommendations for eradicating TF. And who knows, our third round of ronidazole ended two weeks ago- maybe we got it this time! I probably won't be attempting another round of ronidazole as its a very strong medication that is not licensed for use in cats (please refer to Jody Gookin's published document for best practice in its use) and I feel three courses is a lot for their systems to handle.

But for now the symptoms have been under control for 4 months and it was by reluctantly making Hills D/D part of their diet that I got to this point.

That's my ongoing experience with this parasite in my beloved cats- I hope sharing it helps someone else.

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 Post subject: TF nutrition update
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2012 4:36 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 3:42 pm
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I just thought I'd update my previous post on my experiences trying to manage 3 cats with TF.

Just to re-iterate diet cannot irradiate the parasite or the symptoms, only RDZ has a chance of doing that and in our case it failed (which can happen).

Over a year later the symptoms are all under control save the occasional soft stool re-occurance.

The Hills d/d (which is not a brand I was comfortable with in any case) eventually provoked an extreme allergic reaction in one of my bengals which came on very suddenly.

So instead I upped the amount of high meat content wet food and tried a small amount of Royal Canin intense hairball dry (you can get it from amazon). This is high in psyllium husk which has been reported to help stool consistency. In our case it does indeed help.

I also finally managed to also get my cats to eat a small amount of psyllium (make sure it has no other ingredients) added to one of their wet food portions each day. Again a great help. Baked/ boiled chicken breast is equally a very useful part of their diet for managing the stools.

I also supplement with a high quality cod liver oil specifically for pets once or twice a week- I use the pet version from nordic naturals. But you must be careful with this, as you can overdose on the vitamin A contained in it very easily with irreversible consequences especially if you are feeding commercial foods which already have enough vitamin A in them. I give it conservatively once or twice a week, when it says you can give daily. The omega oils are reportedly good for helping with inflammation- which a gut with TF may be.

So just to share my experiences managing TF when RDZ fails- which I struggled to find any help with online or from even the best vets. Don't despair, I have three healthy and happy cats who very rarely have soft stools anymore. You just have to make sure you are feeding them the best quality diet you can and I'd certainly recommend, as others have, psyllium.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:35 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Fri Apr 15, 2016 5:28 pm
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Hi, I know that it is many years since you posted your recommendations for post tritrichomanas. However, I have a British Shorthair kitten who us still suffering from the condition and we are struggling. He has even had unlicensed antibiotics as prescribed by small animal hospital in Liverpool - we have spent £1000s and he doesn't improve. We are constantly cleaning and he's uncomfortable. At times, he drops on the floor. Do we just have to wait for him to grow out of it? Vicky, Merseyside x


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2016 9:37 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8144
As far as I can tell, Ronidazole is the ONLY drug that can help TF. One member here had to have her cats segregated for several weeks as she was unable to get rid of it. Recontamination is quite common and it's a vicious circle. Once the diagnosis has been confirmed, if you have any other cat, they must not use the same litter box, the litter boxes must be emptied and cleaned daily and the drug has to be administered.

I might suggest you try a larger animal hospital. Your little one is suffering from this condition and I know it isn't fun for you, so please, please, please seek out a second opinion and treatment.


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