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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 5:21 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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junglerose wrote:
brianj12 wrote:
Oh I'm not disputing that a high fiber diet would help firm up stools. That is rather obvious.

Not really, it can depend on the quality and composition of the fibre and the cause of the diarrhoea.

The fact that this diet seemed to work for Bradg makes it worth trying for anyone in that position IMO, is that not preferable to cats having chronic diarrhoea?
Or would it be better for the cat to get an allegedly "higher quality" food and continue its watery diarrhoea and incontinence?


By the same token I could post that I fed my cats orange peel and cow **** post TF and it firmed up the stool.. It does not prove it did :D :D

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 8:34 pm 
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junglerose wrote:
The fact that this diet seemed to work for Bradg makes it worth trying for anyone in that position IMO, is that not preferable to cats having chronic diarrhoea?
Or would it be better for the cat to get an allegedly "higher quality" food and continue its watery diarrhoea and incontinence?


You know, this is kind of reminding me of the Monty Python "argument skit", where they discuss whether the automatic nay-saying of someones points constitutes an argument, or whether it is an intellectual process. It doesn't seem like you've actually disputed any of the specific things that I've said yet we're having an argument about it, lol.

Like I said, I was reluctant to even post anything in this thread, and now wish I hadn't, but he made some pretty blatant factually incorrect claims about this food, unrelated to it's ability to be useful in firming up stools, so I felt like pointing that out would be helpful.

If you believe that cats need a low protein, high carb, high calorie diet. Cool, go for it. That RC stuff is definitely for you.

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:10 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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I thought Junglerose's post was actually pretty "non-sided" and an attempt to quell any possible arguments, but wow.

The OP's intention was not to incite argument, but rather to share his or her own experience in the hope that someone else experiencing the same frustrations of TF might come to the same resolution. Why turn this intentionally helpful thread into a flamewar? What works for one human being does not work for another. What works for one cat does not work for another. This is what Junglerose pointed out.

This thread is silly as hell.

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 9:57 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This thread is no more! He has ceased to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e' rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the screen 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!! THIS IS AN EX-THREAD!!

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PostPosted: Sat May 21, 2011 10:22 pm 
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I'd like to thanks Brad for his post. Any help, advice or tips are welcome if you have a cat suffering from long term diarrhea.

Poor Max has been suffering for a long time. he was diagnosed with TF, treated with RD. Symptoms remained the same. We took him to a specialist who advised a second treatment, which he has just had. He still has diarrhea. He hasn't had a second test yet. I don't think he has TF anymore. I think his insides are ravaged by the TF and RD. I have tried so many diets for him and I am grateful for any tips to try. I would do anything to see him pass just one firm stool.

I did try the raw diet, a good recipe, it did nothing for Max. It did however give Sky hideous diarrhea, which she had NEVER had before. It didn't work for my cats although I know it does for others.

Maybe different cats respond in different ways. Many people have different views isn't that the point of a forum?

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 12:57 am 
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jules wrote:
Maybe different cats respond in different ways. Many people have different views isn't that the point of a forum?


Indeed. And it is wonderful that there are so many methods in coping with and resolving various feline issues. It allows owners a variety of solutions - from expensive and time-consuming to simple and cheap - with which to experiment, and each is only as effective as an individual cat's response to said method.

Personally, as an individual struggling with my own diarrhea kitten, I welcome any and all possible remedies to his malady.

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PostPosted: Sun May 22, 2011 8:05 am 
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JamieAndMyrtle wrote:
jules wrote:
Maybe different cats respond in different ways. Many people have different views isn't that the point of a forum?


Indeed. And it is wonderful that there are so many methods in coping with and resolving various feline issues. It allows owners a variety of solutions - from expensive and time-consuming to simple and cheap - with which to experiment, and each is only as effective as an individual cat's response to said method.

Personally, as an individual struggling with my own diarrhea kitten, I welcome any and all possible remedies to his malady.


I agree.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 2:40 pm 
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Just caught up on reading after the weekend.....wow - where do I begin?

For starters, thanks go out to the few folks for crapping on my wanting to help others, and doing their best to pick apart the post.

On the other hand, thank you to the couple of people who actually thanked me. The whole point of the post was "Here's a good suggestion that worked really great for us." You can take it or leave it. The bashing is completely uncalled for and, frankly, rude. If I posted something that was grossly inaccurate (or dangerous), then sure, smash me. But as others have replied, RC 34 & 40 has worked for them.

---Regarding the grain content, my intention was to point out that grain/corn is not the main ingredient in RC foods. Many cat foods use grain or cheap proteins. The point was that psyllium husk was the key ingredient in the RC 34 that did the trick for Roscoe. We actually tried mixing metamucil into his food (dry and wet), but he is very smart and wouldn't eat it. The few times we were able to trick him, it worked...so I started searching for a food with psyllium husk already in the food as an ingredient - which eventually led me to RC34. I researched 40+ foods and RC34 was the only one I could find that had it.

---I find it interesting the differential of brand quality image in the US versus UK for Royal Canin. Here in the US, RC is regarded as top tier quality by both vets and pet owners. Based on responses to this thread, the opposite seems true in the UK. I suppose it is possible that the actual food composition here in the US is different than what is available in the UK. This would be interesting to test because it would obviously change the applicability to my recommedation.

---Wet versus dry food is a contentious arguement. You'll always get folks advocating for or against it. It is indeed fact that in the wild cats don't drink water because they get their liquids from raw meat. It is thus logical to say wet food is better for cats than dry. However, domesticated cats have evolved (because we made them evolve) to eat dry food, so they have changed and now drink from a water bowl to get their fluids. After owning cats for my entire life, I pesonally think that dry is better for domesticated cats than wet. However, to each his own. Especially when dealing with a TF cat, it will probably require lots of trial and error - including testing out wet and dry foods. At the end of the day, go with what works for your particular cat. =)

---I know lots of people that really advocate the BARF diet. I'm sure for lots of cats it works great. I've consulted with numerous vets on BARF, and not one of them will recommend it citing concerns about the introduction of other risks associated with feeding this type of food. They believe the risks outweigh the positives. Regardless of that, I tried it with our bengal, and it made his diarrhea even worse. Your experiences may differ. I certainly will postulate that Bengals are different and less evolved than a domesticated cat (ours is an F5). I'm sure strong arguments can be made (and much different experiences using raw foods) on a bengal that is closer to the asian leopard cat (e.g. F1, F2, F3, etc) than they are to the domesticated cat.

---My experiences are based on my personal research and testing. I'm not some dummy just parroting back anecdotal evidence that I was told by others. I scientifically went about my trials with TF diagnosis, testing, and diet. I even built my own incubator to develop cultures in my 'kitty' quarantine, and working with my vet did my own diagnosis. I used the same knowledge gained to successfully treat another female bengal and savannah.

---Diet in general is an important topic with TF. The needs of each case will be different depending on the type of cat, how long infected, general health, and other parameters. I think our Roscoe would be considered worst-case senario. But, the Savannah I cured required nothing special. She responded immediately to the RDZ, and needed no change in diet. The other female Bengal required two rounds of RDZ, but after that got better pretty quick.

At the end of the day, read as much as you can and make your own decisions. The more you know will lead you to solutions faster, and cheaper, than going about it alone. This is really important because here in the US, not many doctors are aware of TF and it is commonly misdiagnosed as IBD.

To those that got something out of this, you're welcome. To those that just wanted to bash it, you read into things too much. :D

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:15 pm 
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irrespective of what else has or has not been said..

Dry food is without any doubt the least suitable food for a cat! To claim we have forced them to evolve to handle a dry diet is really a bit laughable - evolution works over thousands of years and generations not the 30 or so years that dry cat food has been available!

The problem is that cats do not have the same thirst mechanism as other mammals, and although they do increase fresh water intake when fed dry they do not increase fresh intake by the same amount as lost from the food. This results in less fluid flushing through the urinary system, an increased urine concentration and associated risk of cystitis, increased risk of kidney/ bladder problems, greatly increased risk of crystal formation in the urine and subsequent blockage of the urethra and many other issues.

I have discussed the matter with at least 6 independent vets, all of which stated that almost every case of urinary problems they treat in cats can be directly attributed to being fed a dry diet, when less than 5% of cases of urinary problems are in cats exclusively fed wet food I think it is pretty conclusive evidence of a very very strong link between these problems and a dry diet!

As for vets not recommending barf, many of these very same vets WILL recommend Hills Science Plan which is widely known to be one of the poorest quality foods available - the reason is simple, Hills provide vets with their nutrition training and some healthy kick backs for promoting the stuff ;)

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:09 pm 
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wow - there seem to be some real differences in vet medicine in the UK versus US - I had no idea. Guess its time to rack this part up to regional differences.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 7:18 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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bradg wrote:
---I find it interesting the differential of brand quality image in the US versus UK for Royal Canin. Here in the US, RC is regarded as top tier quality by both vets and pet owners.


Brad. That reputation was purchased, not earned. Surely you can see that? And if there is a difference in attitude it has to do with how many regional marketing dollars were spent. Heck, you yourself called your vet a "Royal Canin Vet" and the nutritionist a "Royal Canin Nutritionist". How scary is that? How objective would you suppose they are?

There is a reason why when you walk into a vet office that their walls are lined with Royal Canin pamphlets, and when you bring in a kitten you are given a Royal Canin welcome pack, and there are racks of Royal Canin food. And none of that has to do with the nutritional merits of the food.

And for record, there is a big difference between coming in here and saying "Hey guys, this product worked well for me, I recommend it" and making all the claims that you made about this food, and getting out the pom-poms. Someone even mentioned in jest how you seemed to be a salesman for this brand. I'm sure it was meant in jest, but the observation actually carried a lot of truth in it as well. Sorry if you figured you could post whatever and it would just blindly be taken at face value. This forum wouldn't be of much value to anyone if that were the case. These are discussions, not advertisements.

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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 10:23 pm 
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bradg wrote:
wow - there seem to be some real differences in vet medicine in the UK versus US - I had no idea. Guess its time to rack this part up to regional differences.


The link between urinary problems and dry food is is well known and publicised in the USA and the UK (and most likely everywhere else on the planet), in fact much of the information I first gathered on the subject when both my moggies developed urinary issues while being fed a dry diet came from US sources.

I find it remarkable that anyone who has done any research into cat food would not actually come across it!

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:10 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Hey folks,

It's not national Brad-bashing day. He's a cat LOVER not a hater. He's one of us, not one of them.

Food for cats, as with kids, is a contentious issue. I read Brad's initial post as someone who was exhuberantly happy to have cured his adored of diarrheoa after months of worry.

Quite frankly, if I'd fed mine Orange peel and cow **** (as it was put), and it worked - I'd be singing from the roof-tops too.

Can we have some perspective here?

Whilst I'm also not of the pure dry food stable, I think any company (and yes they are there to make money) that is doing research into cat ailments, and finding ingredients that make a difference, is worth some applause. Universities accept funding for research - it's how they survive in the US and the UK! I'm glad there's people and companies that are undertaking research - we'd be much worse off without them.

Off to try orange peel and cow **** as a litter training technique for my latest.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 12:54 am 
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Nice wrote:
Hey folks,

It's not national Brad-bashing day. He's a cat LOVER not a hater. He's one of us, not one of them.

Food for cats, as with kids, is a contentious issue. I read Brad's initial post as someone who was exhuberantly happy to have cured his adored of diarrheoa after months of worry.

Quite frankly, if I'd fed mine Orange peel and cow **** (as it was put), and it worked - I'd be singing from the roof-tops too.

Can we have some perspective here?

Whilst I'm also not of the pure dry food stable, I think any company (and yes they are there to make money) that is doing research into cat ailments, and finding ingredients that make a difference, is worth some applause. Universities accept funding for research - it's how they survive in the US and the UK! I'm glad there's people and companies that are undertaking research - we'd be much worse off without them.

Off to try orange peel and cow **** as a litter training technique for my latest.


If someone wishes to post messages praising a food manufacturer to the skies and making claims about the high quality of the foods ingredients then they need to be prepared to have those claims reputed when they are clearly quite incorrect!

Royal canin in particular are guilty of extreme marketing strategies to maximise profit, do not fool yourself into thinking they are "researching ailments and developing specialist foods" for the love of your cat, they are marketing ploys pure and simple - it is a practice driven COMPLETELY by money and nothing else.

What about urinary formula dry foods? What a mind blowingly brilliant concept that is, it is so utterly ludicrous I could laugh except for the fact that it is blatantly exploiting the pockets of cat owners..

Lets encourage people to feed dry food because we make **** loads of money from it, never mind the fact that we full well know that doing so will undoubtedly lead to a greatly increased incidence of urinary problems (before dry cat food emerged onto the market urinary issues in cats was almost unheard of) - then once the dry food has done the damage and led the cat into repeated bouts of cystitis or struvite crystal formation we can sell them a dry urinary formula designed specially for cats with screwed up urinary systems - Were in the money, were in the money - they could just say "actually urinary issues are directly related to lack of water so just feed a wet food and in 90% of cases the problem will go away" but then they can't charge you £8 a kilo for water can they?

They have a range of foods designed for different breeds which is just an attempt to maximise profit plain and simple, the notion that a maine coon requires a different food to a siamese or a ragdoll is just complete and utter rubbish, it is purely a ploy to sell food to those people stupid enough to think that their breed has any different nutritional requirement to any other. Yes it is a proven tactic, when someone sees a food which is "Specifically designed for their breed of cat" they are more likely to buy it.

This is absolutely NOT a case of food manufacturers "educating" vets or professionals on feline nutrition, it is simply a case of them paying to get vets to recommend their food over another manufacturers and maximising profit and market share.

If you believe that the likes of Royal canin and Hills are doing their best for the love of cats and to ensure cats get the very best diet then I have some excellent time share options I would like to discuss with you ;)

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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 1:50 am 
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I've raised cats to 20+ years on a pure dry diet. My last cat ate nothing but Science Diet.

What works for some doesn't work for others. What doesn't work for some works for others.

It is ludicrous to say that one form of feeding your pet is better than another because all cats react to food differently. I don't think people in this thread realize that they are all tooting their own horn about their OWN methods without realizing that other people find identical success with different methods. Plus, all Brad wanted to do was help. By no means was he ever forcing his methods onto anyone. It is wonderful that we are able to get both the pros and cons to Brad's methods in this thread, but it's been done with so much unnecessary hostility.

I do agree with Louise-Paisley that the marketing for Maine Coons and Siameses by RC is absolute bullcrap. But as far as dry food being the devil, not so much. I mean, if someone's cat is eating dry food and getting infections because it's dehydrated, as a responsible pet owner he or she SHOULD be aware enough to modify the diet to suit the individual cat's needs. However, if a dry food-eating cat is perfectly healthy and hydrated on dry food, why fix what isn't broken?

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Last edited by JamieAndMyrtle on Tue May 24, 2011 1:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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