Claire is right about one thing... this is getting boring, so it'll be my last post in this thread too.

This is how I interpreted this discussion, if I interpreted it wrong, then apologies in advance (but I don't think I did):

It started with me making a sarcastic remark about cats behind bars in breeding programs. Claire made the counter remark that (in so many words) that if I felt that was cruel would I also feel that shelters were cruel for keeping cats behind bars. And to me that assertion essentially boils down to "well it clearly isn't cruel for shelters to do that, so it's ok for breeders to do that too... right?"

And I pointed out that, gee, why would a breeder want to be compared to a shelter in terms of their treatment of animals? Not because I have a problem with shelters (I got two previous cats from shelters, and I donate to quite a few shelters because they are doing great and important work) but because they have an opportunity to do a lot better and offer that differentiation between themselves and shelters. And of course the thing about shelters is, they of course hope they get the cat in there, put them on display in a temporary living arrangement, and then ship em off to a nice home. Those cats where that doesn't happen to them is a real tragedy.

As far as why I bought 3 cats from breeders then, honestly this bit about keeping studs and/or queens in cages is news to me. Naive? Yea, probably. I honestly don't know whether my breeders did that or not. My strong suspicion is that at least my Oriental breeder did not, but I don't know that for certain. So maybe I made a deal with the devil so to speak? Not that I have any regrets about getting the 3 cats that I have now. But in terms of the breeder selection process next time, I've definitely learned many many things here in this forum that will factor into the selection process next time around (hopefully many years in the future). And the treatment of the cats (all the cats, not just the kittens) will be something I'll be looking closely at next time around. And who knows, maybe someone having a breeding program reads this thread and it causes them to introspect a little bit about their methods... one can hope.

Nobody here is arguing that a cat would prefer to be kept in a cage... right???

Oh, and on a personal note, this discussion about breeding techniques, doesn't change the high regard I have for Claire and Lolo's breeding programs. If you two lived around here, you'd definitely be the type that I'd look at first for new kittens next time around.

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The little monsters 3

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Lollo

There is no age or time limit for a breeding cat to be used in breeding, this can be a good thing as it allows breeders to responsibly breed only a small number of litters over a longer time frame and get a good idea of the health of their breeding cats but unfortunately it also means that some people can breed irresponsibly and breed their cats too often for too long or for the cats to be passed on to different breeders every year or two once their current owner no longer wants them. All the breeders I have worked with have a clause in their contract that requires any cat sold for breeding to be neutered before re-homing and not to be sold on as a breeding cat to try to avoid this.

Brian - no I don't think a cat would prefer to be in a cage at all, if mine could talk they would probably say they would prefer to live outside all the time and not be kept in my house (with the exception of Willow who hates outdoors) but I don't let them out because it isn't safe and I would never have kept a breeding cat as an outside cat as it would just end up mating with the local cats and producing cross bred kittens which does nothing for the breed at all, in which case they should be neutered because i think it's cruel to have entire animals needlessly. I guess it comes down to whether breeding is improving the breed health and quality enough to justify limiting the amount of outside/indoors access the cats have. If the cats are happy and satisfied and they are helping to progress the breed and people want to be able to have healthy, beautiful, pedigree Bengals then this may sometimes mean that a breeding cat has to live in a restricted environment for the 'greater good' of the breed. Some people will find this acceptable and others won't. I understand that some breeders need to house their cats in enclosures, some of the ones I have seen are incredible and far more than any pet cat has with a cat tree or some jingley balls etc, even if I would not keep my own cats like that. That is because while I know and have experienced most of the yuck side of breeding my cats are my pets and were never just breeding stock to me, I neutered my stud boy so that he could stay in the house and now I no longer breed my girls are neutered too. I don't agree at all with confining any animal in small metal cages however.

Hi Elaine, I have all the details and have attempted to private message them to you - don't want to start a breeders war on here. Please let me know if you don't receive it. I'm not very good at this!

Melanie

this is not possible with all breeds but with some breeds the cats have been selectively bred to reduce stud cat behavior. with the old style Siamese the breeding stock in many catteries has been selectively bred to reduce incidences of spraying and aggression. My Stud Odin is a house cat who is only separated from the household when necessary (for example my queen Athena came into heat the other day and we roomed Odin for the night then swapped him out and put isolated Athena for a few days, Once her heat had passed we allowed her back into the main house) there are ways around caging but i do not look down on the practice