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 Post subject: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:04 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:11 pm
Posts: 128
Here's a bit of a summary of my situation
Let's see, she (my new girl Luna) arrived on the 25th of September with a bad tummy.
Thursday the 29th her sister tested positive so on the 30th I started them both on Panacur (vet) for 5 days, got a bit better with the awful sick smell and after that she got on metronidazole, which she took for 8 days I think. (Time got a bit blurry there) originally it was only for 5 days too but as she had what they guessed were an abscess she was on it longer to get it to go away (which it did) and she got Canikur/pro-kolin for the first week and a half with no improvement at all.
After that she was on a break for a couple of days then on Panacur for 2 days - was supposed to be 5 but I observed no changes only her having a really hard time dealing with everything so I took her off after telling the vet.
In the first 2 weeks they were on Thrive food (wet food in cans).
I then tried raw for around 2 weeks, her tummy got better but she started having a lot of trouble pooing and after she dripped blood one time, I decided to try adding pumpkin puré, salmon oil and extra fiber supplement for Pro-kolin. Nothing helped. (The raw mix was 70% meat 15% organs and 15% bones.) I tried going back to Greenwoods and Thrive, since everyone told me boiled chicken was as basic as you got. She went from too hard to watery.
Then I decided to try some other wetfood, Feringa Kitten. She likes it very much but her poo is still too mushy. The poo barely has shape really - but she stopped bleeding and didn't go as much. In fact her horrendous farting got worse for the first few days, then a lot less now.
For the last week I have mixed raw from the mix I got in her food, which turns the poo solid enough that it looks almost normal but soft enough not to tear on the way out.
Vet has suggested I try a diet for sensitive stomachs (which to them is dry food Hill's, Royal Canin or Virbac) I tried Virbac with Akio but he had zero interest in it.
Vet will tell me raw is a bad idea.

Update : They've been on ground chicken breast for a week now, poo is much better but still a bit too mushy at the end. I've taken the dry food away now and only give chicken breast.
Yesterday I mixed in a supplement, Felini Complete, which they don't like at all.

I really don't know what to try now...


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 Post subject: Re: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 4:50 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:00 am
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Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Owch, sorry you've had to go through such an ordeal. Thoughts:

1. You are doing a bunch of brand switching, but if it is a food allergy, then at the end of the day it would be about the ingredients right? The approach is typically to switch onto a food that has *none* of the ingredients that she been eating up until now, and keep her on that diet for a month or so (no switching). Since one of the things you've tried is raw, to me the only thing it could be would be the protein itself. Have you tried foods with no chicken? Something like beef of venison or something like that?

2. Sounds like you've been fixated on the food angle, but you've pretty much beaten that to a pulp, I think you might be spinning your wheels needlessly at this point. What if there is still a parasite involved? Or some other medical problem? I really think you need the vet's help (again) at this point. I don't think you're going to solve this one on your own, despite your best efforts.

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 Post subject: Re: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:18 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
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I am so sorry you're still having to deal with this. Mushy poo at the end means the food did not sit in the digestive tract long enough to be processed! Mine has that same problem. A probiotic might help, however, switching foods the way you have been doing can complicate the situation. Different blends have a different effect on the digestive tract. There are some foods that do better than others. Don't be so quick to switch the foods. Adding a small amount of pumpkin is okay and a feline probiotic might also help. Some cats have sensitive tummies, period! There could be a food allergy going on, too. I would find a food that is specifically for sensitive digestive systems and go with that until things are much better with Luna. I know this is not fun for you or Luna. Hope things improve.


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 Post subject: Re: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2016 7:42 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:11 pm
Posts: 128
They currently both gave the same poop on the current raw food.
They're not happy about beef at all, neither will really eat it.
They love venison but I have no idea where to buy it - I've frozen up bits of the things I cut off from my own meat.
She refuses to eat dry food at all.

Vet said feed her Virbac, a dry food which she won't touch - or I can pick a between royal Canin and Hill's.
I've tried a probiotic but it just gave her really bad diarrhea again. (It was after a few days with consistent poop so I am 100% sure it was the probiotic)

It's basically been really hard from the beginning, since her poop was really horrible. Watery and terrible, you could see how much it bothered her - she would walk in circles for a long time before suddenly getting runny diarrhea.

Now it has shape and I think if I added more bone it would firm up a lot.

She doesn't really have a standard food I could go back to, she was raised on 90% raw, salmon, chicken, turkey, beef. I'd also be guessing food intolerance if it wasn't for the fact that she is much better on raw, her coat, her mood - it has all improved immensely.

My only trouble with the vet is that I basically don't trust them on the nutrition part - I've tried their "brands" with Akio and his poop was horrendous. Mushy, stinky, orange.

But I think I need to talk with them to make some kind of plan ~ I will try to ask us to do a test over 3 days instead for the parasite - but don't they need to have diarrhea for that? Because right now it might be mushy but it's not that close to diarrhea.

I'll try to analyze the shape and such next time so I can better describe it


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 Post subject: Re: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:20 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:11 pm
Posts: 128
I gave them a Premade mix called VOM (70% muscle meat, 15% organs (heart/liver) and 15% bone)
Around 12 hours later she pooped again

http://i67.tinypic.com/bi71ps.jpg

It was mostly a dark green color (not seen on the picture)
Last time I took her to the vet, on this food, she told me that Luna didn't feel constipated.
The blood is from a tear that seems to open only when she is on this ratio.
I tried mixing it with wet food, which made it solid and without tearing her. Except she would get almost diarrhea at the very end and occasionally diarrhea like once in a while.

(I will call the doctor after getting some pictures of their poop since I just read the green color is likely Giardia - Gods I hate that parasite, why haven't we gene modified something to kill it yet)
(Basically decided I would call the doctor and try to find some cat food to feed them since nothing is working and I need some kind of nutritional food that Akio will actually eat so I can establish some kind of base to go from -

So far I have tried
Feringa, MAC'S, Grau, Real Nature, GranataPet, Porta 21, Schmussy, Applaws, Almo Nature, Bozita, Greenwoods, Catz Finefood and Thrive.
(They love the fish variations of Thrive but get really runny diarrhea on it)


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 Post subject: Re: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:57 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8010
I hope you will continue with the tests on the poop. Has your vet ruled out TF yet? That's the most difficult parasite to get rid of. I know these vet visits are hard on you as well as your babies! This was not the experience you were hoping for -- Luna brought all of this with her in the beginning. These babies are supposed to help your anxiety, not cause more. I have never heard of a probiotic causing more problems, unless you were giving Luna too much. You are a saint to hang in there with this. Hopefully, it will get solved soon.


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 Post subject: Re: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:33 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Sherry wrote:
I hope you will continue with the tests on the poop. Has your vet ruled out TF yet?


Ditto. I really really think that this has nothing to do with the food at this point. Like I said before... this problem is not going to get solved by continually changing the diet. I know you're putting a lot of effort into this, and mean well, but there are other avenues to pursue.

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 Post subject: Re: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:22 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm
Posts: 1165
I feel your pain as Bengals and dodgy tummies is soul destroying!

I think you definitely need to stick to one food for a good while and not keep changing it though (as others have said). Kittens have sensitive tummies and that could in itself be playing havoc with their digestive systems.

Hendrix always has had a dodgy tummy. I whipped him to the vet in the end because his bottom was bleeding and he kept having diarrhoea on and off. He said it was most likely a food allergy and only feed him dry. I had put Hendrix on Royal Canin Sensible quite early on because of this issue and fortunately he likes it and it made a big difference to him. However, Jagger wouldn't touch it and it took me a while to find a dry he would eat. But Hendrix used to steal his food unbeknown to me!

I looked at all the ingredients in both their wet and dry foods. And then I bought microchip feeders to ensure Hendrix couldn't keep nicking Jagger's dry as that had all sorts in it, like seaweed, tomato etc. It seemed mean to stop Hendrix eating the wet food they both loved so much unless I had to so that was my first attempt at fixing the issue ie stopping access to the other dry food. I also started adding probiotic to Hendrix's food as his poo would start firm and then be a bit runny/mushy at the end. It worked so well, I stopped giving him the probiotic earlier this year and then a few months later he had chronic diarrhoea again.

He had a full panel done and it was found that he had a bacteria in his gut that he needed antibiotics for (I had been convinced he was going to have some awful parasite - the vet had never seen anything like it when we took him in and kept him in for 24 hours in case he became dehydrated et). There is still a possibility he has IBD so I'm praying for no recurrence as that will mean lots of invasive tests. However, I now give him probiotics daily again and also add fibre to their dry food which I was surprised to find they would eat! I added the fibre very gradually and built up to the full recommended amount over a month to ensure that in itself didn't shock their stomachs into full blown diarrhoea!

Thrive is one of the foods I feed my two, that and meowing heads wet - they are just good quality proteins with added nutrients, so no other stuff that can upset a tummy. And Jagger has meowing heads dry food and Hendrix the Royal Canin Sensible. Its a pain feeding different dry food but sometimes needs must.

The probiotic I use is Protexin Synbiotic D-C. The vet gave him the paste stuff while he was with them and his diarrhoea turned green -yuk. The fibre I use is also by Protexin.

I'm only telling you this as you never know, it might not be a parasite, there are other things like bacteria etc, or a food allergy to a certain protein. Decide on a food and stick to it for at least a month and also try to collect poo from both and get it tested in the meantime.

I really hope you sort this out soon - I know how obsessed you can become over it as after the bacteria issue I could have done cartwheels after the first firm poo!!! But that took a good couple of weeks after his treatment as I think it took a while for his tummy to fully get over the inflammation that was caused - and he's an adult now.

Let us know how you get on.

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Clare
Hendrix and Jagger, Brown Marble Boys (born 18 August 2013)
Hampshire, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:24 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 6:11 pm
Posts: 128
I was told they tested for bacteria, parasites (basically told me 'we tested for everything that could cause diarrhea')
I have to agree with you guys that this is obviously not about the food anymore - after really looking at their poo I noticed a few things.
1. It seems to be solid to begin with, then goes to mush.
2. The poop is not just the dark brown you'd expect of a poop, but has patches of very light brown to almost ivory in color.
3. The girl's poop is either not very solid or solid with a lot of mucous/slime and a green color.

These things suggest to me that it could likely be Giardia.
The plan is now to contact my vet, give them probiotics twice a day and continue on the raw food. (I spoke with my breeder and some others, they all agree that raw food helps immensely.)
My biggest issue is that I've just entered a really trying time and tbh I can't really imagine how I can get through the 'squeaky-cleaning' stuff, but at least I can cleanand disinfect the litter trays very well.
I have read that it is a good idea to isolate them to one room and completely clean everything in the other room, then bathe them and get them a clean litter box, disinfected with new litter then move on to squeaky clean other rooms.
People to me to get a steam cleaner for their cat trees and such, but I can't really handle that yet.

I will be trying the best as I can do it and I will coordinate a plan with the vet. (Though I don't really trust my vet -.-) I think I'll have to get help from my mom when calling so we can ask all the questions (which we will prepare beforehand). I will want to do a sample each day for 3 days from each of them and take it from there. The vet is not likely to give medicine without a positive for something


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 Post subject: Re: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:20 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8010
Most vets cannot test for TF. The sample must be sent out. In fact, a lot of vets aren't familiar with TRITRICHOMONAS FOETUS. There is a specific test for it. It's not like one test diagnoses all the parasites. If your vet can't find any other parasite, then please have them test for TF. Know that this is something both cats may have. You really need to rule out EVERYTHING medical and then try to settle the sensitive tummy.


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 Post subject: Re: Diarrhea on wet food
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2016 5:00 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2015 6:48 pm
Posts: 192
Hello, all.

One other possibility I wanted to throw out there is to watch how much water the cat drinks separate from food. Thomas drinks a lot of water on his own, and if I feed him more than a small portion of wet food he gets very mushy or watery stools. He does have recurring colitis, but after much observation I was able to figure out that it was a water balance issue.


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