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Bengal Cat Forums • View topic - Raw Diets....
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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 3:29 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:50 pm
Posts: 989
Location: Greenville, SC
Does anyone here feed their bengals a raw diet? I wouldn't mind providing my cats a partially raw diet (as in, still let them have their dry food too), but I don't know the best way to go about it.

I'd love any information about this, reliable links to sites that might have info, that kind of thing. Anything anyone is willing to share! :)

Thanks!

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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 5:55 pm 
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Senior Bengal

Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 8:53 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Central Ohio
For ease of use, stick with a really good dry food like Innova. Cats have complex nutritional requirements, and it's really, really hard to make your own, and still have time to feed yourself.

I give mine raw chuck roast sometimes, cut into little cubes. When they're first being weaned, they take to that much easier than dry stuff. If you're going to feed raw more than 1-2 a week, you'll probably want to add vitamins.

I can't remember specific good vitamins right now, there's several companies that offer complete vitamins for cats to add to raw meat. Just be sure that there's enough Taurine and calcium in it for them.

I'll search around a bit and see if I can find the site again for you.

I think there's a raw food discussion group on yahoo, you might want to check that out.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 8:21 pm 
Sorry to appear dumb guys, but by raw diet do you actually mean raw food, as in uncooked.

I would of thought this would of been unhealthy due to bacteria and worms.


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 8:46 pm 
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Senior Bengal

Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 8:53 pm
Posts: 53
Location: Central Ohio
Yes, raw diet is just that.

The theory is that cats' and dogs' digestive systems evolved to be able to process raw meat, just as they would in the wild.

It can be done safely, but one has to be careful. The meat has to be absolutely fresh, and not left out at room temperature too long.

I occasionally feed my kittens raw beef, the grainey sinewy kind. I don't do it regularly though, mostly as a treat or as a way to get a kitten to eat more if their appetite isn't satisfactory.

The problem comes in when you consider what cats eat in the wild. Small rodents, birds, insects, etc. Freshly killed meat is hard to come by nowadays. Plus, the cat will conume the intestines, parts of bone, hair, eyes, brain matter, and whatever Mr. Mousie had for lunch. Alot of raw food diets try to emulate this, but still, certain parts are left out. Plus, many are ground beef, chicken, turkey, or lamb, animals not normally eaten by small cats. Add to that the antibiotics, medications, and vaccinations given to commercially raised meat animals, and it's not really "natural" kitty food.

Plus, wild animals can be infested with tapeworm, intestinal parasites, fleas, and many other icky parasites. Then consider that a housecat's (indoor-only) average lifespan is around 10-14 years, and a feral or wild cat's is 4-7.

Therein lies the connundrum. Yes, cats were designed to process raw meat, but raw meat is dangerous. Commercial cat foods can be AAFCO certified to be a complete diet, but the testing process to get that certification is lax, all one has to do is show that a cat can live off of the food alone, not considering the cat's condition or level of energy. Plus, there's a horrible dark side to the pet food industry, with many things going into the products that would make you ill. Sometimes (don't read this if you have a weak stomach) even euthanized companion animals that are rendered can be one of the ingredients, or part of one of the additives.

AAARGH! The feeding issue has kept me awake at night before. The only thing you can really do is to RESEARCH! I feed mine Innova, and they love it. They have great muscle tone, great coats, and Innova is made with human-grade food ingredients. There are several other really good foods that are natural, or at least top-grade ingredients, but you're not likely to find them in petsmart. The internet is the best place for that.

Sorry for rambling!!!!


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:15 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:50 pm
Posts: 989
Location: Greenville, SC
I already feed my cats Innova. :)

I found this online... wonder if it's good?:

<a href='http://www.omaspride.com/products.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.omaspride.com/products.htm</a>

I think a nearby petstore sells some frozen meat specifically for animals to eat as well.. might check into that after I get off of work today.

Thanks for the info guys, very informative!!!

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http://www.nutkitty.com


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PostPosted: Wed May 12, 2004 11:27 pm 
I'm definately learning new things everyday. I may look into this. As I have read that you should try not to feed your Bengals a ALL dry food diet.


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 2:05 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:50 pm
Posts: 989
Location: Greenville, SC
I just got back from the petstore... I picked up some of these:

<a href='http://naturesvariety.com/canine/chicken-turkey/' target='_blank'>http://naturesvariety.com/canine/chicken-turkey/</a>

I'll give them a go and see how my cats like them. (along with their usual dry food, etc...) I think I'll give it mainly as a treat to suppliment their diet.


Edited to say that one of my cats ate half of one of the "medalions", and the other wouldn't even touch it, I even sprinkled some cheese on top.

Bleh! :(

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:08 am 
Nutkitty,

Cats can be the funniest of eaters. I suppose we will never know why they like some things and not others. :blink:


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 12:29 pm 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:29 am
Posts: 42
Hi everybody,

I just joined this list and read some of the topics. This one about diets caught my attention because I am thinking about putting one of my bengal boys on some raw food. He has been losing weight and is under vet treatment because he is losing his coat from overgrooming. The vet thinks that he might be allergic to his food so they put him on some prescription allergy ZD dry food made by Science Diet (ugh!) This is his third month on it. Since he has been on it, though, he has lost nearly 2 lbs. so I'm going to have a little talk with the vet soon about feeding him a raw diet to see if I can get the pounds back on him. Now we have two things to worry about instead of one! In the past I have been totally against a raw diet, but I've heard stories on Bengals-L about how it turned around sickly Bengals when nothing else worked. Now I don't know what to do. I just want Koby (Kobra) to get better. We have spent hundreds of dollars already on tests and they all have come out negative, thank God, but it still leaves us with the problems and our vet is out of answers.

As was mentioned in another post, I, too, have laid awake at nights thinking about what food to feed my two Bengal boys. They are sooo picky. Our older female DLH, Missy, can eat anything so I'm not as concerned about her. My other bengal (they are brothers-littermates-18 mos. old now) is fine. He is solid Bengal with a gorgeous coat, as his brother used to be. Both boys used to be highly glittered, but the ZD has taken the glitter off of both of them. I was feeding Innova and Wellness--both dry,before we had to switch to the special food. They don't like wet, canned cat food of any kind. I did the research before switching to Innova and Wellness and was pleased by what I read about them. I will return them to dry Wellness and Innova once the food trial is done for Koby. The ZD hasn't made any difference in his coat. So sad for a show quality cat. Its very frustrating.

I have given a little raw beef to Kaly (Kalypso) and he loved it. I refuse to feed raw poultry to any of my cats. We used to cook chicken and turkey and shred it for them, but don't do that now. I am in the minority on the Bengals-L board on the raw poultry issue. So just so I can say I tried it, I'm going to try raw for a few weeks if I find a good recipe for it. I have several that others have been using in their catteries, including our breeders, who have switched over to raw. I just have to buy the vitamins and things to go in it.

Sorry this first post is so long. I've been in a quandry about this for weeks and just wanted to share. Its so against what I have believed before, but I will try anything I can to get Koby back in shape. He has plenty of energy and still gets into everything, but his weight loss and the shape of his coat are very worrisome.

Thanks for listening,

Nan


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 12:50 pm 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:29 am
Posts: 42
<!--QuoteBegin-NutKitty+May 12 2004, 03:15 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NutKitty @ May 12 2004, 03:15 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->

I found this online... wonder if it's good?:

<a href='http://www.omaspride.com/products.htm' target='_blank'>http://www.omaspride.com/products.htm</a>

[/quote]
Oma's Pride is one of the raw diets that Bengal owners use. Many times, you can find a distributor somewhere nearby where you live. I've heard good things about this food and also have heard from people who don't like it for their cats. I think, if you are interested, it would be best to post on the Bengals-L board for opinions or go to the board that was mentioned before.

Nan


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 1:01 pm 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu May 13, 2004 11:29 am
Posts: 42
<!--QuoteBegin-NutKitty+May 12 2004, 06:05 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (NutKitty @ May 12 2004, 06:05 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I just got back from the petstore... I picked up some of these:

[URL=http://naturesvariety.com/canine/chicken-turkey/] [/quote]
The only thing that would concern me about this one is that only a portion of the meat and bone products are from certified organic sources. I know that I've read before that its important that you use organic meat because its free from the things, like growth hormones and DES,that they give to animals to make them grow faster. I'm not an expert on these things, but I was exposed to DES before I was born, as were both of my sisters, and have had some physical changes to worry about all of my life. I don't think I want to do that to my cats. Growth hormones are something we humans can handle in our food better than our smaller cat friends can. Another thing to ask about.
Nan


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:02 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:50 pm
Posts: 989
Location: Greenville, SC
Oh, good observation! I noticed they had the organic variety on their site, but I didn't see any at the petstore.

I think I'll order it online next time I try... at the moment I was just curious if my cats would even eat it. So far they aren't biting. :)

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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:25 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 8:35 pm
Posts: 16
Oma's Pride is good food, but I found my cats won't eat their mixes because the veggies chunks are too big for them & so they will just spit it back out.

Instead my vet recommended food from www.companionnaturalpetfood.com (a retailer thankfully is on my way home from work - so nice & convenient! but they do ship if you call & ask) and my cats ate this no problem. It also has some veggie but the veggies are ground much finer & it doesn't seem to bother the cats. They also make mixes expecially for cats, unlike Oma's where the mix for dogs & cats are the same. I did have to mix some of their soft food in with this for a couple of my older cats to eat it, but all of my young ones just gobbled it down. I did add some taurine to it. Also make sure if you feed raw as the main part of your diet to rotate meats every few days. This makes sure your cats are getting the different nutrients they need. I also add beef chunks or chicken chunks at different meals because my cats love to chew & tear the meat and they can't do that with the ground.

Jessie


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PostPosted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:10 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed May 05, 2004 11:50 pm
Posts: 989
Location: Greenville, SC
Awwww.... if their minimum order wasn't 16lbs, I would try it! There doesn't seem to be any retailer in my area for it either. :(

I'd hate to buy 16lbs of food and have them not eat it... especially since they didn't like what I bought yesterday. :)

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PostPosted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:32 am 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Mon May 03, 2004 11:29 pm
Posts: 11
Greetings,

i just posted about raw diet in another thread but will elucidate a few points here.

Commercial food is garbage and most people would not feed it to their cats (or dogs) if they really knew what was in it or about the health issues that ensue. Just as people may eat poor diets for many years without issues and accumulate them as they age, so do cats. Most times this is just assumed to be failing health due to age when in reality a cat who is fed a species appropriate diet may have a much greater chance of remaining in fantastic health despite the aging process.

Here are a few interesting facts:

Five of the MAJOR and "high end" commercial dog food companies are owned by major multinational food production companies: Colgate Palmolive (which produces Hills Science Diet), Heinz, Nestle, and Mars. From a business standpoint, multi-national food companies owning pet food manufacturers is an ideal relationship. The multinationals have captive market in which to dump their waste products, and the pet food manufacturers have a direct source of bulk materials. Both make a profit from selling scraps that originate from places far worse than the dinner table. In his 1986 book Pet Allergies veterinarian Al Plechner sums up what goes into companion animals food: Condemned parts and animals rejected for human consumption are routinely rerouted for commercial pet foods. A similar fate applies to so-called 4-D animals. These are food animals picked up dead, or that are dying, diseased, or disabled, and do not meet human-food qualifications. They are processed straightaway for companion animal consumption. Little goes to waste. Says Plechner, Food processing refuse of all sorts winds up in your animals dinner bowls. Moldy grains. Rancid foods. Meat meal. The latter is ground-up slaughterhouse discards often containing disease-ridden tissue and high levels of hormones and pesticides, the very things that may have contributed to the death of the steer or hog. A decade later, his words still apply. When cattle, swine, chickens, lambs, or other animals meet their ends at a slaughterhouse, the choice cuts -- lean muscle tissue and organs prized by humans -- are trimmed away from the carcass for human consumption. Whatever remains of the carcass (bones, blood, pus, intestines, ligaments, subcutaneous fat, hooves, horns, beaks, and any other parts not normally consumed by humans) is, according to the pet food industry, perfectly fit as a protein source for cat and dog food. The Pet Food Institute, the trade association of pet food manufacturers, acknowledges in its 1994 Fact Sheet the importance of using byproducts in pet foods as additional income for processors and farmers. The purchase and use of these ingredients by the pet food industry not only provides nutritional foods for pets at reasonable costs, but provides an important source of income to American farmers and processors of meat, poultry, and seafood products for human consumption. Many of these remnants are indigestible and provide a questionable source of nutrition. The amount of nutrition provided by meat byproducts, meals, and digests varies from vat to vat of this animal protein soup. A vat filled with chicken feet, beaks, and viscera is going to make available a lower amount of protein than a vat of breast meat. James Morris and Quinton Rogers, professors with Department of Molecular Biosciences at the University of California at Davis Veterinary School of Medicine, assert that there is virtually no information on the bioavailability of nutrients for companion animals in many of the common dietary ingredients used in pet foods. These ingredients are generally byproducts of the meat, poultry and fishing industries, with the potential for wide variation in nutrient composition. Claims of nutritional adequacy of pet foods based on the current AAFCO nutrient allowances (profiles) do not give assurances of nutritional adequacy and will not until ingredients are analyzed and bioavailability values are incorporated. Meat byproducts, the catch-all term of the pet food industry, is a misnomer because these byproducts contain little if any meat. Byproducts contain little if any meat. Byproduct are animal parts leftover after the meat has been stripped from the bone. Chicken byproducts include heads, feet, entrails, lungs, spleens, kidneys, brains, livers, stomachs, noses, blood, and intestines free of their contents. What the pet food manufactures fail to mention is that most byproducts, digests and meals are also filled with other substances, such as cancerous tissue cut from the carcass, plastic foam packaging containing spoiled meat from supermarkets, ear tags, spoiled slaughterhouse meat, road kill, and pieces of downer animals.
The most nutritious dry pet food is no better than the worst if an animals will not eat it. Pet food scientists have discovered that spraying the kibble or pellets with a combination of refined animal fat, lard, kitchen grease, and other oils too rancid or deemed inedible for humans makes an otherwise bland or distasteful product palatable. Animal fat is mainly packing house waste or supermarket trimmings from the packaging of meats. Animals love the taste of this sprayed fat, which also acts as a binding agent to which manufacturers may add other flavor enhancers. The pungent odor wafting from an open bag of pet food is created by this concoction. Restaurant grease has become a major component of feed-grade animal fat over the last 15 years. Often held in 50-gallon drums for weeks or months in extreme temperatures, this grease is usually kelp outside with no regard for its safety or further use. The rancid grease is then picked up by fat blenders who mix the animal and vegetable fats together, stabilize them with powerful antioxidants to prevent further spoilage, and then sell the blended products to pet food companies. Rancid, heavily preserved fats are extremely difficult to digest and can lead to a host of animal health problems, including digestive upsets, diarrhea, gas, and bad breath. Once considered a filler by the pet food industry, the amount of grain products included in pet food has risen over the last decade as the American population has focused its attention away from consuming beef and toward a healthier diet of grains and vegetables. Commonly two of the the top three pet food ingredients are some form of grain products. For instance, Alpo's Beef Flavored Dinner lists ground yellow corn, soybean meal, and poultry byproduct meal as its top three ingredients. 9 Lives Crunchy Meals lists ground yellow corn, corn gluten meal, and poultry byproduct meal as its top three ingredients. Of the top four ingredients of Purina's O.N.E. Dog Formula -- chicken, ground yellow corn, ground wheat, and corn gluten meal -- two are corn-based products from the same source. This is an industry practice known as splitting. When components of the same whole ingredient are listed separately (ground yellow corn and corn gluten meal) it appears that there is less corn than chicken, even when the whole ingredient may weigh more than the chicken. Soy is another common ingredient in many pet foods. It is used by the manufacturers to boost the claimed protein content and add bulk so that when animals eat a product containing soy they will fell more sated. Tofu is suitable for humans, but most forms of soybean do not agree with a dog or cat's digestive system. Like many other pet food ingredients, soy is virtually unusable by an animal's body. Being obligate carnivores, cats have little ability to digest any nutrients from soy. The problem is worse for dogs because they lack the essential amino acid to digest soy products. Soy has also been linked to bloat and gas in many dogs.
(excerpt from article by Tina Perry)

Many people feel that high end commercial is better. They see low ash, meat as the first ingredient, low or no corn and believe they are feeding the best food available. Fact is any filler, additive, processing etc. is bad for your cat. The ingredients are questionable at the very least and as you can see from the article above, if most people had this info i do not believe they would continue to feed commercial.

my boy gets fresh large pieces of meat with bone and some organs. i mimic what he would eat in the wild. As i provide him with fresh i know exactly what is going into his body. He is an obligate carnivore and i respect that and provide him with meat. i will _never_ feed him commercial food again!

Here are a few links if anyone is interested ....


<a href='http://www.catnutrition.org/' target='_blank'>http://www.catnutrition.org/</a>
<a href='http://www.rawlearning.com/' target='_blank'>http://www.rawlearning.com/</a>
<a href='http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch3.php' target='_blank'>http://www.felinefuture.com/nutrition/bpo_ch3.php</a>


Yahoo discussion lists ....


<a href='http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/' target='_blank'>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawcat/</a>
<a href='http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/' target='_blank'>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rawfeeding/</a>

Regards,
dru


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