Hi,
I have a new 10 week old boy, F1. He is definitely on the smaller side. I think he was competing for food at the breeder with other cats just never got his fair share.
He will eat AS MUCH as I will give him, until he gets diarrhea and can hardly walk. Perhaps because of the above fact that he did not get his fair share.
So the advice a lot of people give for kittens, "as much as he eats", will not work.

The question is very simple, he is 320-340 grams. How much Blue Buffalo Kitten Wet food should he have a day (split into 4 feeds). Simple XYZ grams of food per 1 GRAM of body wight would do.

The first day he ate so much he got diarrhea and was pooping basically undigested food for a day. I put him of a fast for 16 hours, to slow down and clear some of it off. Stool was better after 24 hours, so no trip to the vet, yet.

Still I need to know what is going to work for him in a pretty exact terms, I can of course adjust it up and down as is required, but a real ratio would be awesome.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!

So he is 10 weeks old, undersized, and has diarrhea, and somehow because of that the advice that he should eat as much as he wants is wrong and he needs to eat less? That really doesn't make much sense imo. If you don't trust other experienced cat owners, vets, magazines, and books, then perhaps what it says on the blue buffalo web site about that food would help:

Feeding Instructions

Up to 20 weeks of age, feed as much as your kitten will eat in 3 or 4 feedings per day...

http://bluebuffalo.com/natural-cat-food ... en-entree/

I really think you should look into much more logical causes for the diarrhea, and make sure to get that taken care of without underfeeding him. It may simply be that this is a new food for him? Something different than he was eating at the breeders? It could also simply be from the stress of the big upheaval that he just had in his life, and may take a few days to settle down. Otherwise it certainly could be a parasite (which is very very common), or it could be an allergy to that particular food. In all of those cases though, the answer is certainly not to underfeed him. He really should be eating more, particularly if you are concerned about his size and growth.

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The little monsters 3

Diarrhea is a kitten can very quickly lead to dehydration, which can be very difficult to get a handle on without a vet. I would get him into the vet to be checked for parasites, which are pretty common and could be the reason he is underweight and had diarrhea. IF it is a parasite that is causing him a problem he probably isn't getting the nutrients he needs from his food, which will stunt his growth and possibly cause other medical problems down the line. Definitely worth getting him to a vet.

Put down a quarter cup of food every couple hours and keep track of how much he is eating. Keep track of how much he is drinking too, and using the litter box. The vet will ask.

Overeating usually causes cats to vomit, not simply pass the food without proper digestion. If he does have portion control issues, giving him a quarter cup every three hours or so should help him get used to not having to compete for food. Based on what you have said though, my suspicion is that there is a medical issue going on. I would also google dehydration test for cats so you can monitor that as well.

My 5 week old kittens (tonkinese so a smaller breed) are all over 480g. Are you entirely sure of the age of this kitten???? He is incredibly small and far too small for the breeder to have even contemplated sending him to a new how. I am quite shocked by how irresponsible they are!!

I would contact the breeder immediately as this is not right at all. This kitten is too small for that age by quite a long way. It sounds sick as well. Overeating should not really cause him to have diarrhoea to this extent.

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Lollo

Wow, lots of rude people here! Thanks!

Some good info tough.
Well, I can't control what a stupid breeder did to my baby. Thanks for the compassion. He either is really 5-6 weeks old or he is really stunned in growth. The breeder might be reported to animal welfare service, since they were feeding him terrible diet (cow formula) , and raw food, taking him away from his mom probably 5 weeks too early so mom goes into heat again, and never watching over his actual food intake.

Took him to a hospital, insane bill. He is now on antibiotics because of the raw food for e. coli and salmonella, tox screen is due in next two days. PCR and bunch of other stuff.


Since nobody actually new the answer to my real question here it is:

If you assume the calorie basis for the diet is 122 Kcals/can.

With that knowledge in mind, we can work out his calorie requirement. For a kitten this size, this would be 238-242 Kcal/day (I have given you a range since you have given me a range weight for him 311-340). This translates to 1.95-1.97 cans a day, which you can round to 2 cans, 6 ounces or 170 grams of wet diet per day. This works out to 0.53 grams of food per gram of his body weight. And remember this is his base dietary requirement, so this is the minimum to feed of this diet.

As far as speed of weight gain:
In regards to weight gain, we'd expect an average of 7-10 grams per day, which translates to a weekly level of 49-70 grams of weight gain or ~15% weekly weight gain. Of course, as you noted, if we see less then this, then diet levels may need to be adjusted for his individual issues.

Formula for calculating calorie intake for a kitten:
For a kitten its 3x the RER (resting energy rate) which is equal to 30x their weight in kilograms + 70 kcal per day.
That is the min he/she should ingest and pass normally to sustain growth.

People are not being rude at all. They are all experienced and concerned cat owners who are worried about a very sick kitten.

In response to some of the things you said:

Raw feeding is not wrong. A lot of vets are against it but it is considered by a lot of people (Bengal owners especially) that it is the best food for cats. A raw diet consists of muscle meat, organs and bone in order to be a complete diet. Feeding raw will not necessarily have made you kitten ill.

Kittens start to wean at 4 weeks, sometimes earlier. I agree, removing kittens from mom at 5 weeks is far to early. And if that is what the breeder did they are wrong, unless there was a medical reason for it (like mastitis, mom attacking kittens etc).

At the weight he is, he sounds more like 4-5 weeks old. But I hope he isn't. Why do you say he could be 5-6 weeks old now?

You can help what the irresponsible breeder did by telling them. Complaining about it. Pedigree kittens are registered. Usually TICA in the USA. You can report them for selling a kitten unhealthy. TICA have rules that breeders had to abide by. They also have guidelines which advise that kittens should not leave the breeder until they have been vaccinated at are 12 weeks old. The TICA website is very healthy. This is another reason why it's best to only buy registered pedigreed pets. There is someone to complain to. If the breeder doesn't register the litter with TICA then they can't do anything even if she normally does register with them.

Regarding your desire to scientifically work out how much a kitten needs. It isn't like that in real life. They need to eat a lot. Not every kitten will expend the same energy as others so their calorie needs will be very different. A small difference when you are very small is far more significant.

A 7-10 weight gain is ideal at a young age (birth - 2/3 weeks) but you would want more the older they get. My 5 week old kittens generally gain 15-20 per day. That is what I would expect them to gain. I would be concerned if they only gained 7 each day.

The breeder was incredibly irresponsible. If there is an animal welfare organisation in your area you can report them to them.

I'm sorry you are in this situation. We are only trying to help. Small kittens deteriorate very quickly. They can become dangerously dehydrated in a few hours. Not feeding for mor than 6-8 hours in a kitten with diarrhoea can actually be fatal. You would need to make sure they had fluid intake during this time. Either syringing water into the mouth, tube feeding (done by an experienced person) or sub cutaneous injections (again by experienced people). Starting a new kitten on a new food straight away will cause diarrhoea, even if it's a better food than the one they were weaned on to. You have to do it gradually. It's why my kittens always leave with food samples and I send out information on the foods they are used to 2 weeks prior to their collection.

If your kitten isn't drinking much you can add some water to their wet food. You can also give Goats Milk as the lactose content will is not the same as cows milk and so it will not cause the same issues. Goats milk is used by many breeders to supplement moms milk in large litters or to hand rear kittens. Their is also a nutritious milk substitute you can make for him. My younger kittens love this. Google kitten glop. The recipe is the same everywhere I've looked for it, might vary slightly on brands and amounts but it's pretty much the same.

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Lollo

Biakenny,

Your ego is going to get you and your cat into big trouble. You'd rather be told what you want to hear than the truth, you won't listen, and you don't know what you are doing (i.e., the diarrhea, the raw diet, the food intake etc.) and you have in F1, an extremely challenging type of cat to own. At least you did take the kitten to the vet, hopefully you will listen at least to what the vet tells you.

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The little monsters 3

I am glad you took your little guy in. Illness like what you described in a kitten of his size and age is nothing to mess around with. It is a shame that the breeder sent him home with you in that condition. I genuinely hope the breeder prepared you for dealing with an F1. I don't mean to be rude in saying that (or anything else for that matter), but if someone would send you home with a kitten in that condition, I hope they wouldn't mislead you on caring for an F1 as well.

Does your calorie information account for him being underweight and possibly undernourished? I ask simply because it sounds like there is some catching up to do when he gets 100% healthy.

I have always free-fed my kittens and cats and only one is overweight (he came that way as an adult from a rescue). I have never been concerned about calorie counts, i have always simply looked at the body weight picture for cats. Just sharing my experience.

I hope your little one is feeling better soon and to see some pics of him too!

Bri I also free feed. None of my cats are overweight. I have dry down all the time but feed 3-4 wet meals a day for the adults. My kittens are getting around 6 wet meals per day at the moment.

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Lollo

Well he is doing better on the antibiotics:

The breeder sent him with Cryptosporidiosis, Girardia, Corona Virus, maybe TF.
** TF test was negative, but he was just given dewormer so it might not be right.

How is he? He is on antibiotics for Girardia and then they will treat Crypto if he can't kill it on his own.
He is doing little better today, better stool, go to pee a lot, so I guess he is hydrated a lot.

So I guess I should report this right?

Here is the situation:
(1) Our kitten was given to us with severe Giardia, Cryptosporidiosis.
(2) He had to be in a hospital 2.5days after arrival
(3) She gave him subcutaneous fluids to pass the vet exam, which was probably very poor.
(4) Our vet is reporting that vet who issued the health certificate on her own.
(5) His first passing with us was a diarrhea.
(6) He is 10 weeks old but is 340 grams, looks like 5-6 weeks old, he is very sweet but very sick.
According to our wet he is either 6 weeks old due to color of his eyes or completely stunted growth from malnutrition.

(7) This breeder took the babies away from STB mom probably at 4 weeks maybe 5, saying that SBT mom would make them wild. I am not sure this makes any sense!
(8) She feeds them COW milk formula, Ultra 25. It is terrible for cats and will cause a lot of problems.
(9) She feeds them raw turnkey at 7-8 weeks and told us that should be his diet!
It would cause terrible deformity of his bones.

(10) She provided no instruction about him that would make sense, most of her verbal instruction would kill him already
(11) She does not understand what parasites are prevented with Panacur. She thinks it controls Giardia.

Advice? TICA or should I also go to the State of Texas Animal Welfare?

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Lollo

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Lollo