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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 12:40 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:24 pm
Posts: 189
lollo2304 wrote:
I do think that there are a lot of people out there that feed an incorrect raw diet... it is that kind of raw feeder that gives raw feeding opposers ammunition.


I agree, there's also people like me who manage to poison the cat through stupid mistakes with hygiene, it,s not just about removing the food bowl if it,s eaten or not within 5 minutes. You need to think about what the bowl and any utensils are made off, it,s much harder to clean bacteria off plastic than steel, some bowls have plastic or rubber round the edge that may be difficult to clean. Can the cat reach any dirty bowls left in the sink, have any traces of food fallen on the floor?


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 10:52 am 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:48 pm
Posts: 30
Cats are carnivores, they do not need veg but they do benefit from certain vitamins found in some veg. That is why I think it is best to fortify the raw feed with things like taurine and sea kelp. I cannot see how raw feeding alone will contribute to liver failure it is the most natural way to feed and the most species appropriate diet for the animal. Canned cannot offer more surely, infact I believe quite the opoosite. Raw is high in moisture and stimulates the gut to produce vital enzymes that benefit the system and encourage the healthy function of the liver. Reading so many stories about how raw feeding has made pets so healthy and even nursed them back to good health from the brink (as was the case with my kitten), I find it hard to believe it would contribute to such ill health. That's like saying it was the grilled chicken that makes people fat not the KFC.


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:51 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:24 pm
Posts: 189
After having to feed one of my kittens canin wet food i am overjoyed they are back on a full raw diet. I don't know what's worse the smell of the food going in or coming out, it's also worrying how they seem addicted to commercial food, both mine would eat it if given a choice.

A cats natural diet does not consist of grazing animals (unless your talking about lions etc), the prey would be more likely to have fed on insects & maybe grain and seed so the argument about getting grass from the preys stomach doesn't really add up. My 2 kittens have access to plenty of safe plants including wheat grass, the only time i've seen them eat it is when they where i'll (presumably to cleanse the system).


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 11:55 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
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Location: Leicestershire, UK
To a lot of uneducated people 'raw feeding' is purely giving raw meat. No organs and no bone. This is what i meant by people not feeding raw correctly. I know people do this as i have tried to re-educate them. And these people have been doing it for a while... there is probably alot of people out there that hear about raw feeding and how good it is but do not fully understand how to do it.

It is very dangerous when fed incorrectly. It can cause a whole host of problems just like feeding any incomplete diet.

I do not believe Raw feeding is a cure all but i do believe it can help and cannot hurt (when done correctly). I also do not believe that all wet food is bad, so long as you can choose a high quality one. I would much rather people fed wet with a raw treat than feed raw and do it wrong!

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 8:32 pm 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:02 pm
Posts: 36
Location: Scottish Highlands
I've had a few days where Willow (moggy :)) has been off his food. I was so worried that this evening I had him at the vet. A couple of weeks ago I caught him eating a scrap of fabric with a plastic popper on it (off-cut from making rag rugs). I'm worried that he's been eating more of that sort of thing, even though I'm always quite careful to clean up after myself. She had a feel of his stomach, took his temperature, and gave him an injection of something to calm his tummy incase he's been feeling sick or anything, but couldn't find anything wrong with him.

To my relief (and mild irritation), this evening he ate all his dinner without complaint :roll: . I suspect he's just being a fussy boy. I've been feeding them raw for almost a year now and wouldn't change back to commercial food for anything (to my delight, the vet didn't have a problem with this and didn't try to talk me into buying science plan or anything!).

I've been using the standard recipe often recommended on here - 2kg chicken, 400g heart, 100g kidney, 100g liver, sardines and eggs. Today I ordered a pheasant from the butcher to see if Willow likes it. If he does then I might make the next batch with pheasant instead of chicken. I've noticed though that he's been picking round the offal this last little while too, so I'm wondering if I might be able to get chicken giblets to try instead. Would that be the same ratios again (400g chicken hearts, 100g liver, 100g kidney)? I'm guessing that would be a lot of hearts, and I have no idea if I'd be able to get them. Or if for example I made a batch with a whole chicken + giblets, wouldn't that already be the correct ratio of organ to white meat?


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:14 am 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:41 pm
Posts: 35
Location: New York City
Hey everyone, ive been reading this thread for a while and I've decided to switch my 6 1/2 month old boy over to raw, especially if you guys say its more cost effective. The $3 per can of his current favorite food (ZiwiPeak) is killing me. My local store gave me a sample of some raw food (by a co. called rad man) and my cat loved it, gobbled it right up so I'm pretty sure he likes raw. Also, my cat doesn't eat anything chicken or turkey flavored in canned foods, the raw chicken is the only chicken I got him to eat and someone mentioned to me having my cat on a diet primarily of venison/rabbit/lamb isn't a great idea.

Anyways, I need advice on the best way to switch him over. I've already obtained chicken, chicken liver and heart and its in my freezer. I need to know how to prepare it (how long to thaw, what to add, etc.) and how much I should add into his wet food.

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 7:24 am 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:41 pm
Posts: 35
Location: New York City
Sorry the name of the sample I got was from a company called Rad Cat (http://www.radfood.com/index) there's the site if anyone's interested, and I might as well ask what are your thoughts on the premade frozen raw diets, such as the one above and Instinct, etc.?


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:07 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:11 am
Posts: 211
Location: Cairns, QLD, Australia
I know a lot of recipes and links have been posted on this thread but I still need some help.

I want to start making my own raw mix for my bengal. I am trying to do all the research I can to get it right.

The usual situation with being Australian and the internet is that I cant find anything I need, I want a recipe with supplement links I can buy in AUS. There is sooooooooooooo much information it literally drains me.

I just want something like:
go to butcher, ask for this, grind that, mix that, get this supplement from this shop....
I need it to be exact and thoroughly explained so I can get my head around it.

Surely there are some Aussies that make their own and can help me with supplements?!

I am so confused :(

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:08 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu Mar 07, 2013 4:11 am
Posts: 211
Location: Cairns, QLD, Australia
I know a lot of recipes and links have been posted on this thread but I still need some help.

I want to start making my own raw mix for my bengal. I am trying to do all the research I can to get it right.

The usual situation with being Australian and the internet is that I cant find anything I need, I want a recipe with supplement links I can buy in AUS. There is sooooooooooooo much information it literally drains me.

I just want something like:
go to butcher, ask for this, grind that, mix that, get this supplement from this shop....
I need it to be exact and thoroughly explained so I can get my head around it.

Surely there are some Aussies that make their own and can help me with supplements?!

I am so confused :(

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:11 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK
jaz&django wrote:
I want to start making my own raw mix for my bengal. I am trying to do all the research I can to get it right.
...I am so confused :(


What is "right"?
The problem with raw feeding, is that "getting it right" is not proven or tested.
Lots will provide recipes, but none of those recipes are properly scientifically researched and few of them even looked at by a feline nutritionist. There is no scientific evidence that shows raw feeding IS better for cats.
The recipes and "advice" are advocated and pushed by internet guru's who usually have another agenda, ie they sell raw food, they sell raw supplements, or they are promoting a book...
This bumf is all gobbled up avariciously by a section of the public raised on the mantra "natural" is best.
But who really knows if "natural", as they see it anyway, is in fact best?

Personally I feel that raw feeding carries too much of a risk to cats and humans as regards its bacterial load. Raw diets, both homemade and commercial are found to be full of bacteria, some of them very harmful too.

But if you are convinced by the raw route, then I suggest you go to the vet/vet practice, and ask for their advice and hopefully they can point you in the direction of a feline nutritionist who will work with you and your cat, so that Django gets a balanced healthy diet from locally available sources. Consult a professional regarding changing his diet to raw, do not rely on any internet "expert".

I feel that many owners just wing it, they are providing raw diets that are unbalanced and unhealthy to varying degrees, but they get away with it, short term, because the cat is a forgiving species, it can live on just about anything. Cats can live and look well on diets that long term may do them serious harm.
I am not saying that owners intentionally feed their cats badly on raw, but providing a "bad" diet can be the result, with even the best of intentions.
See link.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18006&p=208815&hilit=raw#p208815

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 11:51 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:01 am
Posts: 285
Location: South Australia
Just out of curiousity without having to research it, but what do you feed your cats Elaine?

With reading a lot in here I am pretty sure that I will not be feeding raw, it does not help that Cinder doesn't like it enough in all honesty. I can get a little confused with all the conflicting information on here, I want to do what is best for my cats and believe that giving them what they like and making sure it's the best I can give them can be really confusing and frustrating :evil: . It's like feeding my kids lol! They are all different I know and like different foods but I don't remember my other cat being like this, but then again, I only had one cat, two is different...it seems!

I am feeling more reassured knowing the choices I am making will not be at the detriment of my cats health

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Owned by Neko and Cinder
And a little white dog named Kasey


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:00 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
I have lived with cats all my life, volunteered at rescues and helped in boarding catteries. I now breed and show my cats so am around A LOT of cats. Very very few are raw fed and the vast majority live to a ripe old age with very few health problems.

I just struggle now to believe that raw is the only way to feed a cat that is right.

These cats i have come across in my life (100's) were mostly fed fairly poor (by a lot of people's standards) quality food. 4% meat content was the norm.....

I am not suggesting a low meat content is the way to go... but can it be so wrong if the cats are well and live till they are 18-24 years old?

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:43 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2013 2:01 am
Posts: 285
Location: South Australia
So what do you feed your cats? I am just seeking advice from those who have much more experience than me :confused:

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Owned by Neko and Cinder
And a little white dog named Kasey


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 2:22 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK
maybutterfly wrote:
So what do you feed your cats? I am just seeking advice from those who have much more experience than me :confused:


I have been everywhere with my cats. I have tried raw, I have tried high protein foods wet and dry, I have tried just about every dry food too at some point.

I have ATM, come back to Royal Canin as a dry grazer, and I give high quality treats like cooked chicken daily, two of mine, will die for Whiskas or Felix pouches too, and I sometimes give in to their wishes.
I tend to feed up any cat that I think needs it or reduce the food of a fat cat, I play it by ear.
I find that every cat has its own requirements and that some will eat for instance the cooked chicken and others just won't. I found the raw particularly divisive, one cat loved it, but the others just didn't see it as food. I lost my nerve over feeding raw when I found out the organisms that are present in raw meat.
Some cats get diarrhoea if fed other commercial food and others won't, some will walk away from cooked fish or bury it and some will eat it ravenously. My moggie will eat anything, but my Bengals are definitely fussy.

I have also thrown out a large number of tins of high protein, high "quality" stuff and bags of "natural" foods as no-one will eat it, including my moggie, and in some cases the dog too, so God knows what is in it?
I have found RC to be the best for good stools, healthy looking coats and everyone will eat it with no complaints, including the dog, if he gets a chance. :)
You can provide the best food in the world, but if the cats won't eat it, are getting stomach upsets, or are losing weight and condition, then there is no point.

Feeding is all about what your cat will eat, looking at its condition, making sure what you are feeding is balanced and has the essential nutrients.
It is not about internet "bullying" and chitter-chatter regarding what is "best" for your cat.

If your cat loves the cheapest food on the market, looks good and is happy and healthy, then who here can say you are doing it "wrong"?
As Lollo says cats can live for 18-24 years fed on "rubbish" foods.

My feeling is that as long as the genetics are good, cats can live a long time, if the genetics are bad, ie in the case of my HCM cat, then he has no chance...

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2013 5:15 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
maybutterfly wrote:
So what do you feed your cats? I am just seeking advice from those who have much more experience than me :confused:


Growing up and in the rescues i worked ALL cats were fed standard cat food made by Whiskas, Felix or GoCat. All of which have meat content no higher than 4%. From when i have been old enough to care for cats myself and the ones i am owned:

Sheb:aFed on Whiskas all her life. Would eat nothing else and she was 24 when she died. Not a single health issue.

Old Tim: Whiskas all his life and died at 19. He did like raw chicken giblets though. He associated the smell of stuffing with giblets and would appear from nowhere! Heaven forbid you would have stuffing with pork. (Pork=no giblets). No health issues after breaking his leg once in a RTA.

Rosie:Whiskas or Felix and, in later life, Friskies Gourmet Gold (4%meat)... all wet foods as was above. She got picky when she turned 19 and got interested in a complete raw mix my dad discovered. Died at 19.5. No health issues ever.

Young Tim:Whiskas and Felix as above when he lived with us. Then GoCat dry when he moved in next door. At 13 years old he developed kidney issues and was put on a special diet. He would pop back into us and eat Rosie's food (she was his mom). He died almost exactly 12 months after Rosie when he was 19.5 years old. No ther health issues.

Oliver:Loved Felix food the best of all. Had Iams dry for grazing but also liked Whiskas dry(first cat ever to have a dry food from me and my family). He developed tumours all over his kidneys when he was 10 years old. I had him PTS because of significant weight loss and pain :sad:

Now onto my current cats...

Evie: Initially fed Whiskas, Felix and Friskies Gourmet wet foods. They had Royal Canin dry to munch on as well. No health issues other than severe Pancreatitis caused by TF. Now has some irritable bowel due to damage caused by TF.

Max: Initially fed Whiskas, Felix and Friskies Gourmet wet foods. They had Royal Canin dry to munch on as well. Now will only eat Whiskas Oh so Meaty, Chicken flavour :rolleyes: I have tried 100 different foods with no joy. However, i have recently, this year, found he will eat cooked prawns and Tuna high meat content wet food. He also still gets some Royal Canin dry. He is 5 years old and recently had Liver failure issues of unknown origin but is now and otherwise well.

Toby and Lily: Came to me nearly 3 years ago completely raw fed and on a grain free dry (Origin). Had major issues with Origin whilst with me as they constantly vomited it as did Evie. After introducing to Evie and Max all cats developed diarrhoea due to TF (diagnosed eventually). Whilst diagnosing this all cats were fed boiled chicken, cooked white fish or sensitive dry food because anything else resulted in the sh!ts! After clearing TF raw food was introduced back with varied results. I got a complete premade mix in the UK. I tried every grain free dry available in the UK and there were issues with all of them. Either not liked or not tolerated. I ended up going back to Royal Canin as it was the only food they all kept down, ate and thrived on. Toby has got Idiopathic Cystitis and Lily is well and a breeding queen. She has had two litters one of 5 kittens and one of 8 kittens. They are 3 years old.

Pippa:She is now 10 months old and is one of Lily's kittens from last year. No health problems so far.


Evie, Toby, Lily and Pippa eat the same. They have Royal Canin dry to graze on. They then get fed a variety of wet food. They get Natural Instincts raw food. They also get some high meat content complimentary food as treats every now and then. They get cooked prawns 1-2 times a week. They get Felix and Friskies gourmet alternating with the raw. I know Toby prefers RC dry so i like him to get more wet so he gets extra Felix. Lily loves Chicken wings, Toby and Pippa love Day old Chicks and Evie loves Whiskas Temptations treats. I do sometimes get hearts from my Father in law and they love that as a treat.


Also worth saying that, up until Toby and Lily came to live with me, all the cats were allowed outside access as and when they wanted. Now the five i have don't.

I guess that was all a bit too much info... and guess what? I eat zero junk food myself :rolleyes: :lol:

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