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 Post subject: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:01 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 7:02 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Romania
I've noticed that every once every few days there's another topic about raw feeding. There's a lot of great info that is lost because most times these topics get to the bottom of the page and people just forget about them.
So I was thinking to make one "official" topic which maybe a moderator could pin to top so everyone can see and where we could each write resources and our experience. It would be a lot easier for new members to find and the great info will all be in the same place.
I've been researching raw for about a month or so. This actually started when I got a puppy and stumbled upon info about kibble that horrified me. I had no idea about the crap it had in it and how bad it was for our animals. The pup tootk to it right away but the cat didn't even look at the meat so I though he can't really be switched. About a month later my pup died in a stupid accident (I'd rather not talk about the details). I was devastated and got terrified of the idea of losing my cat. So I read everything I found in regards to cat nutrition, how it should be done, what should be fed etc. I tried again, this time with baby steps and lo and behold, my cat is now eating raw meat and I'm in the process of introducing bone and organs.
I've found a lot of resources that helped me better understand this process of raw feeding. It's the best way to feed your pet but it can lead to serious problems if you don't do it right!

http://www.catinfo.org
http://www.rawfedcats.org
http://www.ukrmb.co.uk/
http://www.catnutrition.org
http://www.rawlearning
http://www.rawfed.com
http://www.rawlearning.com
http://feline-nutrition.org/
http://www.rawmeatybones.com
Some of the above contain general info about raw feeding (cats, dogs, ferrets etc) and some are just cat only. For those of you looking for specific info and don't feel like browsing the above sites in depth (altho I really recommend that you do):

Benefits of raw feeding:
http://www.rawfedcats.org/benefits.htm
http://www.catnutrition.org/
http://www.ukrmb.co.uk/showcontent.toy? ... nid=175912
Raw Meaty Bones and Prey Model Raw
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/petowners/whatisrmb.php
http://www.rawfedcats.org/nature.htm
http://www.ukrmb.co.uk/showcontent.toy? ... nid=175914
BARF
http://www.barfworld.com/html/learn_mor ... tory.shtml
Anti-BARF
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/petowners/whynotBARF.php
Transitioning from kibble to raw
http://feline-nutrition.org/nutrition/h ... a-raw-diet
http://www.rawmeatybones.com/petowners/ ... ngcats.php
http://www.catinfo.org/docs/Tips%20for% ... -14-11.pdf
Ground recipes:
http://www.catinfo.org/?link=makingcatfood
http://www.catnutrition.org/foodmaking.html
Anti-grinding
http://www.rawfedcats.org/nogrinders.htm

Another great place with awesome people is the facebook group Cat CRAP (Completly Raw and Proud) - https://www.facebook.com/groups/CatCrap/

I know most people like to ground the meat but I preffer not to. I'd rather cut it into small pieces so my cat cand excercisehis jaw a little. It's more work but it pays of in the end. A very popular recipe is the one posted on CatCRAP(thank you Louise for sharing it) :

"2 x 2kg (4.4lb) oven ready chickens
800g (28oz) of sheep/ ox/ pig heart
400g (14oz) of organ meat (200g min liver, and the rest kidney/ spleen as available)
6 eggs if I have them (whole eggs, none of this only feed the yolk nonsense)
A splash of salmon oil (if I remember, not essential but it is quite good for them)"

You can, of course, change the quantities while keeping the same proportions.
A cat should eat 2%-3% of it's body weight. It, of course, deppends on the cat, level of activity, age and other factors. Some might eat more, some less. Best thing to assess if you're feeding the right quantity is to eyeball his weight: if he's losing, you're feeding too little, if he's gaining you're feeding too much.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:24 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 12:16 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Derbyshire, UK
Thanks for this.

We are picking our new Bengal boys up on Monday and will try to change to raw as soon as they are settled.
This info is invaluable.

Here is a pic of our (soon to be) raw fed boys...

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:43 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Posts: 3013
Thanks Suki! As you know I am trying to get BB switched now this info will help tremendously! THANKS!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:51 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:35 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Miami FL
Thanks very much! Picking my kitty in a few days and needed more info on this! :D

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:57 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 1580
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Excellent idea! I'd like to add sources for meat. I get whole ground rabbits fur bones and all and other meat from https://www.hare-today.com/

There are some excellent threads on it and I'm tired of repeating myself I love the sticky idea. I hope you can add to the OP and keep it updated.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:03 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 7:02 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Romania
Unfortunately I can't seem to be able to edit my fist post to add info so I guess we have to find another way, maybe use BOLD for the links or the info we want people to notice?

I want to post a little update on our progress. I've introduced some bone today (a few chicken ribs cut into small pieces) and chicken heart. He ate both.
I must admit I'm really scared of bone tho, those sharp edges do not feel safe to eat.
Also, I've noticed that Thrive is a miracle. Whenever he doesn't want to eat I just sprinkle some Thrive over his food and lo and behold, he eats it :)
We're getting our little girl on saturday (SO SUPER EXCITED, can you tell?:D) and I'm planning on switching her to raw aswell, after she's settled. Don't think it will be a problem tho, breeders have been giving her beef and liver from time to time so I think she'll take to raw pretty fast.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 12:47 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:34 pm
Posts: 496
Location: Bristol, UK
Hi Suki, i came onto this post after your recommendation on mine, thank you for that :) Just wondered on average how many meals would that recipe provide? I know it would obviously be based on the general size of your cat but i was curious of the average supply you would get from it?


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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 1:02 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 7:02 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Romania
Well, generally a cat eats anywhere between 2 and 5% of it's body weight, depending on age, activity level etc.
I have a lazy cat that's 7.7 kg and he eats about 140g spread over 4 meals. So the above recipe would last 37 days and 148 meals for us :D
I don't follow it yet, I find it's best to start small and add others when your cat is ready. Mine wouldn't even look at heart two weeks ago and now he happily eats it. If you make a recipe from the start, chances are he'll turn his nose up and walk away and you're stuck with 5 kilos of random meat suff that he won't eat :)

I should share my story anyway :) I started transitioning to raw about 3 weeks ago, I think. I first bought some canned and put little bits in his dry food. At first he avoided them but then he started eating them. When I saw he was picking out the wet first, I offered a plate full of it. He ate it, but didn't eat enough. So I gradually fed more wet and less dry until he only ate wet. This was very difficult for me. He didn't really like the wet so he'd only eat 200g at most. Last week I ran out of the canned food he liked and he refused to eat others (I had the same brand but a different flavour). I really didn't want to go back to kibble so I bough half a kilo of chicken thighs (no skin, no bones), chopped it up and gave it to him. Sprinked some thrive on top (this is my miracle powder, lol) and he happily ate it. He ate about 150g that day so I decided to switch him to raw completly right then. I had some felini complete and I mixed it with the meat for the first days. Yesterday I tried some bone and chicken heart and he ate both without a problem so I'm no longer adding the Felini Complete. Next on the list is liver, fingers crossed. I think I'm gonna have to cover it really well with Thrive Chicken, lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Thu Jun 28, 2012 2:52 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 1580
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Depending on age and activity levels determines how much. For my very active adult I'm under 15lb(7kg) a month. I make two months of food at a time.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 12:16 pm
Posts: 135
Location: Derbyshire, UK
Picking our boys up on Monday, currently fed on RC 36.
Just ordered Natural Instincts Raw chicken and beef complete. As soon as they are settled it is my first duty as a loving father.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:28 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 1580
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Congratulations on getting the sticky.

I started feeding Nature's Variety Raw immediately when I got my boy. In time I got lazy and cheap, then I started feeding him Fancy Feast. His poo was runny and smelly he started to get dandruff and shedding a lot. Since his health was better on raw I decided to go back. I wanted to save money so I started making my own. To my surprise it was costing me less than canned. Its because it didn't have all the fillers that he was eating so much less of it. To give an idea he was eating 4 cans (3oz) of FF a day. On raw he was eating the equivalent of 2½ cans/day. He poops alot less of these little compact nuggets that barely smell.

I make a few months worth of food at a time. To get him started eating the raw I added some StarKist canned tuna. Its not healthy for him but he likes it so much I add a few cans in every time. Besides the tuna I get everything I need from https://www.hare-today.com/ I've never used http://www.wholefoods4pets.com/ but I hear its a good source too .

I mix everything in a large Tupperware container with the nutrient Alnutrin, as long as your using whole ground animal with the bones and guts (except stomach and intestine) it doesn't matter what the percentages are but what your cat likes. My cats favorite is whole rabbit with fur so its 70% of it. To keep his diet varied 15% changes with ever batch between Chicken, Deer, Buffalo, Turkey, Quail, Beef etc. The remaining 15% is Sardines for omega oils, chicken hearts for extra Taurine and canned tuna because he's addicted.

After everything is mixed I weigh it out and put it in Ziploc bags. Weight depends on your cat but I do 125gr per bag. I squeeze all the air out and make them as flat as possible. When their flat they stack nice in the freezer and take little room they also freeze/thaw faster. When I get a thawed bag from the fridge to feed him I take a frozen one from the freezer and put it in the fridge to thaw for his next meal. If I forget to thaw one I put it on top of the refrigerator and its thawed in 15min or so.

I also replace meals occasionally with whole pray treats like quail, mice, sardines, or small pieces of fresh fish for when we're doing tricks. I just make sure he gets at least 100gr.

Everything improved on raw including behavior, he doesn't cry for food all the time either. If your debating on raw maybe try pre made first, after you see the benefits save yourself some money and make your own. You'll wish you did it sooner. Another advantage to making your own is you know what goes in it. Nature's Variety is the most common in the US but contains fruits and vegetables that your cat doesn't need. Below are pictures comparing pre made to my home made. What one looks like what your cat would eat naturally in the wild?

Nature's Variety
Image
My homemade :P
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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 8:33 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 7:02 pm
Posts: 224
Location: Romania
Viperkeeper, just a curiosity: how much do you feed a day? I didn't quite understand if it's 125g for one day or for one meal :)

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Fri Jun 29, 2012 9:41 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 1580
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
100-125gr per bag/meal, 200-250gr/day. So about 15lb(7kg) a month. For a VERY active 12lb(5.5kg) 2yr old male.

My vet is a cat only specialist and amazed at the muscle tone and coat of my cat. He says "What ever your doing don't change a thing"

To determine how much to give him I put out a measured amount of food, in an hour I weigh what's left. Next time I feed him the difference. So I don't restrict what he eats just avoid waste. Because raw especially whole animal is so well balanced I don't think you can over feed IMO.

If your switching to raw it takes a few weeks to adjust so they'll eat a lot more at first.

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:43 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 5:35 pm
Posts: 131
Location: Miami FL
I just got my kitty and he was fed canned food (in gravy). This morning I gave him some home made food (ground beef and liver) I mixed it with some of the canned food and he ate some of it. I am planning to try to get him used to liking raw food gradually. It's only the first day. After that I think I will buy from Whole foods since I don't have a grinder. Is it ok if I make the mix with meat+liver and add some bone meal? Where can I find food grade bone meal? I also bought kitty bloom to mix in.

I will probably alternate between home made ground mix and entire morsels like chicken wings. anybody doing that? Do I need to add canned pumpkin or yogurt like I saw elsewhere? :?

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 Post subject: Re: Raw feeding
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:11 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Tue May 29, 2012 7:02 pm
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Location: Romania
You should give him some time to adjust before starting to change his food, it might upset his tummy. I'll give mine a week or two to get settled and then transition to raw...

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