There's no need for any discussion to go down the route of insults as far as I'm concerned, regardless of the subject matter.

Goldfish in a tub may be something many would consider wrong and inhumane, that I agree with - the crux is obviously the suffering of the prey animal. What about day old chicks being euthanised though? Does this not feel slightly wrong in the same respect? What prey urges get satisfied there exactly, and at what cost? After reading through various threads on raw feeding I'm surprised that the views on this seem a bit foggy, just because they are euthanised humanely doesn't make it right? They are bred for one sole purpose...




People ask the strangest of questions on the internet, why - because they can!

Give your opinions in response, state facts if you like. I don't believe the OP is intent on causing rifts; however if that is the case then that alone is no justification for insults.

Turn the tables - as a new member how would some of you like it? You can see the fold, but you don't want to feel it's wrath!

Asking a question only to be debated to the point of being publically insulted is not acceptable, why do some of you think that's fine?

Now where are those people who shout about cliques...

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Miki & My Beloved Bengals http://mybelovedbengals.blogspot.com/

Shiloh, Darcy, Rudy The Roodster & Ozzy...

_________________
Best Wishes,
Karen <UK>
http://www.suntouchedbengals.com
http://www.bengalbreedersunited.co.uk

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Miki & My Beloved Bengals http://mybelovedbengals.blogspot.com/

Shiloh, Darcy, Rudy The Roodster & Ozzy...

Karen,


The oddball - well, that's a debatable one I guess, on many levels.

The insult - aside from other lesser ones the A***hole comment takes the prize.



Some people do start threads soley to cause disruption I agree, but some also revel in the 'holier than tho' spats that they deliver. Which is the most disruptive would you say? Or do they have some form of equality?


Day old Chicks - Thanks for the comments on that, I didn't want to say it myself. Some people would have you believe that they are a by-product i.e all males etc etc, but delve a little deeper and it's clear that this is just another trade that's exploited, sweeten it up a little for the public to swallow and there you have it. Whether it be right or wrong is another debatable matter, I just wanted to highlight that one view can and often does contradict another.

One persons humane is another persons cruelty.

Also JMO.

Ooops......so sorry Meemonkey! Quite right I had missed the 'A------' word!

Miki, I agree 100% about 'we can only believe' that humane etc means just that. I really did want to point out about the day-old chicks though. In my opinion (for what it's worth), NO animal should be bred to be born and killed the same day. Same goes for day-old calves that are male, born into a dairy herd. I know there are MANY THOUSANDS of these poor calves born every year, only to be shot at birth because they are male.

I think we could go on forever, but I do think every creature born has a right to a reasonable life (of more than 1 day!) AND a humane end.

_________________
Best Wishes,
Karen <UK>
http://www.suntouchedbengals.com
http://www.bengalbreedersunited.co.uk

I agree that I thought there was a bit too much judgement at first, as I said before different folks different strokes.

Although after reading the last few things random tabby wrote, I have to agree with everyone else that he is a moron.

I don't know why he keeps bringing up humans not eating meat or eating it rather. What does that have to do with anything.

Everyone knows that a human cannot survive on anything that was not once alive. What if I love plants and animals am I suppose to starve myself?????

I was saying before to everyone that some people just don't care about fish and I thought perhaps random tabby was one of those people but I was wrong, he is just a weirdo.

About the fish thing though; I grew up in a fishing town and it was common practice that if you were fishing and you caught a skate (fish in the sting ray family I believe) which were over populated to bring them up and kill them. For a hundred years people would take the Cod and Flounder and throw back the skates, I was always taught to kill them.

This is something I WOULD NOT & COULD NOT do now as I have a huge respect for all life, however I'm sure there are people who are not "evil" or complete A holes that harbor no feelings for fish, one way or the other. They might respect life, the ocean, and the ecosystem, but the life of one fish would be to them like stepping on an ant.

So I guess what I'm saying is that I never should have posted my two cents, but I was only trying to make the point that some do not carry as much respect for fish as they would say a cat, dog, or bird.

But again I must add that even the killing of skates had a reason; overpopulation.

Bringing a goldfish home for a cat isn't a very good reason so perhaps my argument isn't very good. Sometimes to acquire the most knowledge we must walk in an others shoes or play devils advocate.

Good day everyone think positive

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good post louise and its good to hear from someone who has 1st hand experience rather than just speculation... xx

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Miki & My Beloved Bengals http://mybelovedbengals.blogspot.com/

Shiloh, Darcy, Rudy The Roodster & Ozzy...

I think some people need to re-read this thread because I see a lot of repeating comments.
I have freely admitted that allowing any animal (including goldfish) to suffer is cruel, and that by considering allowing that to happen does make me a hypocrite.
Please also note that I have not put any goldfish into tubs, I had only thought about it and asked a question, and many of you now treat me worse than a butcher.

Please note that I considered giving live prey to a BENGAL, not a regular domestic cat. The key in my mind is that bengals are closer to wild animals than a domestic cat.
When certain wild caught marine fish come into my shop they do not know that pre-killed animals are food, and must be offered live food at first, until (and if) they can be weaned onto dead food. This ensures the life of the predator, at the expense of the prey. The prey fish is sometimes stunned and sometimes not. Sometimes it is allowed to swim freely in the tank (where there is no escape), or stuck onto a skewer or held with tweezers, depending on the type of preditor being fed. Similar methods are used to feed mice to snakes (except for the skewer method).

I have also heard that some aquariums around the world give live fish to the cetaceans, dolphins and whales, to enrich their lives. These fish are let free in the tanks, but there is still no hope of escape. They are toys for the amusement of the cetaceans. Prey is just as much amusement as food to predators, who often (in the wild) have little energy for anything else after food has been acquired.

I just realized that perhaps it is the word toy that is upsetting people, and if so perhaps a less upsetting term can be suggested.

Anyway, what I am trying to say is that being a new bengal parent I am exploring just how domestic or not the bengal breed is.

I think the debate about whether or not humans need to eat the flesh of other animals is too big for this post and should probably be dropped or moved elsewhere. I have heard every pro argument presented here dozens of times before, and I know that it takes most people months or years to see that eating meat is a choice.

I think it is wonderful for 16 year olds to see both sides of an argument and make their own decisions about what is right or wrong. If someone thinks a certain thread is too heated for them then they should move to the next one. And if someone receives negative comments to their post, then they should first consider whether the reply has merit, and if not then simply disregard it.