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Bengal Cat Forums • View topic - Considering an F2
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 Post subject: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:25 pm 
Hello all.

Firstly I'm not even sure if posting this here is a good idea because of the judgements and stuff of other members but oh well. If you really have anything super-negative to say about this, at least send it to me via PM to keep this thread from cluttering up lol. My hope is this thread keeps some positive & negative but INFORMATIVE info about getting an EG cat..

I made another thread about possibly getting another bengal, and after lots of research and looking into it I think I may want an EG cat. It will be the duration of a pregnancy before we even knew if our potential breeder will have an available F2 male or not, but I would like to learn as much as I can. I am fascinated by the ALC, but wouldn't want an F1 because of it's 50% wild blood I find a bit intimidating (although I know this depends totally on the cat/breeder/parents temperament).

I have met ALC's before and EG cats, and we recently met two F3 kittens that were adorable. However I would like to know about the experience of having one of these cats bonded to you and stuff as that's a side I've never seen.

I know of all of the potential problems and things with an EG, like using the bathroom in the tub/sink, excessive energy, anti-social to people, and how these issues can grow as the mature. I'm pretty anti-social too, I have all the time when I'm not working and stuff to give to my cats, and there's nothing I enjoy more than sitting outside with them or playing. I could give it a forever home, and I am an extremely understanding parent to my animals and realize you're more likely to have to change parts of your lifestyle to fit an EG cats rather the other way around.

TL;DR: I am considering an F2 kitten as a companion for me and friend for my 8Mo SBT bengal. Advice on owning an F2 or EG cat in General?


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:46 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:08 am
Posts: 1727
Location: Melbourne, Australia
I'd love the challenge of an EG one day, but I doubt I will ever go there.
You do whatever you feel you are capable of handling. As you well know, there are some strong opinions on this forum, you can take them with a grain of salt :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:54 pm 
Of course, I can take anything anyone wants to dish out lol :twisted: . My questions don't lie in thinking I couldn't handle one..I was wondering more about people who live with them, or breeders that have them stories and tips.

I tried searching the forum but the most recent stuff I could find about F2's was from 2009 and wanted some up-to-date support on the subject! :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:54 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:08 pm
Posts: 2927
Location: West Midlands, UK
Miki is one member that has two f2's although I think they vary quite a bit in their behaviours.

I know that one of hers will pee inappropriately and also is very attached to her and can be highly emotional.

On the other hand I know people who have f2's that are seldom any trouble. I expect it's all down to the breeder, parents and environment .....and maybe a bit of pot luck lol


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:29 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Posts: 3302
I think like with any animal it depends on how they are raised. I know some breeders pull eg kittens from their mothers and bottle feed them just to imprint human contact at extremely early ages. Other breeders leave the kitten with mom for the entire time, like what would be done with sbts. I have met eg cats and honestly if I didn't have four kids I would have one. I have talked with a breeder and she swears that pulling kittens and bottle feeding is the only way to go. She has an f1 from one of her litters (he is a male so obviously a neutered pet) and he is great cat and he is two years old. He is raised in a child day care so he has to be a well rounded cat. To sum it up if I were to get an eg I would find several breeders and talk to them about their socialization techniques, also get refrences for past buyers! If they are great breeders and produce well rounded cats especially egs they will have refrences. There isnt a better way to get a feel for what type of cats they produce. Good luck and I hope all goes well

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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:57 am 
Thanks! I've been extremely careful with finding a breeder and she's extremely reputable. Everyone I have heard from that has her bengals say they are the greatest cats.

Thanks Lacemoat. I've been told about the urinating issues and I think that could managed. That's really the only issue I've been able to dig up on my own other than they're bonding to one person and no one else (which I am also okay with!!).


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 12:58 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 1:11 am 


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:34 am 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:43 am
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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:29 am 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:43 am
Posts: 31
As stated, I've mostly only been lurking. Haven't even posted an introduction to myself and my insane little beastlet - a rescue, whom we believe to be an EG cat. Maybe she's just a "problem kitty", but her problems are very, very much in line with those of EG cats - so even if she is just a "problem kitty", I think I have at least some idea what you'd be up against.

First, a bit about my beloved little beastlet. Her name's Maia. She's possibly an F1 or F2. From all the research I've been able to do into her background, I'm semi-confident of the breeder she came from, and that breeder did produce a number of F1s that would be the right age for Maia to have been from there, and that breeder now produces F2s. I do not know if they will continue to produce F1s, but.... I do hope not.

Maia was very, very lucky. She was purchased from a breeder, and owned by folks who couldn't deal with her issues - and she has many. They dumped her at an SPCA for spraying and yowling. This is an absolute death sentence - the SPCA does all it can, but is not limitlessly funded. Their funds have to go toward animals that can be safely adopted out. A cat that sprays and yowls gets put down; they don't get a chance. I understand that. It's sad, but it is what it is.

Fortunately for Maia, she is really cute. She caught the eye of shelter workers, who thought she acted as though she were in heat. They called a rescue group, and thank goodness, the rescue group was willing to foot the bill for an exploratory spay - although she had a scar and tattoo, it was found that the spay was incomplete. They removed the left-behind ovary, and Maia went to the rescue shelter to wait for a future.

When I called inquiring about her (I didn't want a bengal, per se; I wanted a crazy-silly-active-kitty, not a lap cat, with go-go-go feet and a bold personality), after being questioned for forty minutes by the shelter lady, she decided that I "might just be weird enough for this cat". So I researched bengals, learned about EG cats, decided that, as long as Maia wasn't an EG cat, we'd be good to go.

Well....

Long story short, Maia's pretty likely an F1 or F2. But she lives with me anyway - she made it plain on my second visit to her that I was her person (I did a LOT of soul-searching and even more research after meeting her the first time). My decision to adopt her wasn't made lightly (just as I know that your decision to buy or not buy an EG cat isn't going to be made lightly). But in Maia's case, her being an EG cat wasn't her fault. She already needed a home, and I wasn't (and wouldn't - no offense meant to any breeders out there at all, I swear) supporting a breeder of EG cats. FOR ME, I couldn't morally purchase an EG cat. I PERSONALLY don't think they should continue to be made. But that's JUST ME, and I DO NOT feel that it should influence or impact breeders or purchasers of EG cats....

So why am I writing all of this? Well, you wanted to know what living with an EG cat is like.

So:

I come home from work and Maia demands a snuggle. Then she pretends to eat things (the air, a box, cat food can, a shoe) until I put down her first dinner.

I make a meal for myself while Maia eats and cleans up after herself (she only cleans HERSELF, of course - the splash radius from tearing into her food is my job). And her food is important - she will ONLY eat cans that you open and it's full of actual meat - Weruva, Soulistic, and the like. I am hesitant to consider transitioning to raw, but am thinking about it.

After (or during) my meal, Maia wants to play. If I don't play, she runs back and forth, and climbs the walls at doorjambs. She often makes it close to the ceiling. There are claw marks in the walls. I think this is awesome. Most people wouldn't. We play with Da Bird while I sit and eat if we play during dinner.

Sometimes we do some treat training - she knows "sit" very well, and will also step onto things if I point to them. But she won't eat cat treats. The only "treat" she'll take is boiled chicken. I do this in big batches, then cut up into treat size and freeze in small portions to take out and thaw.

If she gets bored of interaction, I watch a show or something for a while, then she gets second dinner. You see, if I give her her whole dinner at once, she eats it too fast and pukes it up again. No good. So: meals have to be ACTUAL MEAT, no pate, and can't have it all at once.

If I stay up late enough, she has third dinner around 2 am. This gives me a solid six hours to sleep, if I'm very lucky, before Maia wants first breakfast. Otherwise, she wakes me for first breakfast in the middle of my night (if I go to bed early, say, 11 or 12, she will wake me around 4 or 5).

When I go to bed, we have at a minimum a solid 30 minutes of play time with a feather wand. She GOES CRAZY for this. She climbs the tapestries, runs like mad across me and my bed, goes tearing out of the bedroom all saucer-eyed, comes galloping back in, tackles the feathers.... It's tons and tons of fun. To me. Most people, maybe not so much. I can understand why the previous owner couldn't handle her; she is a serious handful, and if they were expecting a normal cat - even a normal bengal - they wouldn't have been able to deal.

In the morning, before second breakfast, we have a snuggle. This is great. She lets me rub my face all in her fur, and scratch her tummy. She purrrrrrrrrrs. We snuggle. And then she demands second breakfast. Second breakfast is her largest meal; for some reason, she doesn't eat this one fast, so I can give her a big portion before work. On the weekends, I get to watch her eat this; she scarfs about a third, then picks at the rest very slowly over a couple of hours - leave, come back, bury it, un-bury it, eat some, bury it, go, come back, etc.

All said and done, my 7lb cat eats two 6oz cans of food per day, divided into four or five meals.

So, she doesn't spray and yowl. Fortunately, removing the overlooked ovary removed those habits as well. But aside from her really, really demanding appetite and absolutely crazy activity level, what other problems are there?

Wellllll, there's the small matter of not peeing in the litterbox. When I took Maia home, I thought, as long as she uses the litterbox, we'll be okay. I can deal with anything, everything, as long as she doesn't go outside of the litterbox.

She poops in the litterbox. Consistently. But peeing? Maybe five or ten percent of the time, she pees in the litterbox. The other 90 to 95 percent of the time, she pees in the wet bar sink in the living room. The first time this happened, I was utterly and completely dismayed. I knew it was possible for her to have issues with the litterbox, but I had truly hoped she wouldn't. As the days went on and the peeing became very consistently in the wet bar sink, I finally decided I didn't mind so much. I mean, really, what is a sink but a simplified toilet? I flush for her when I get home from work and in the morning before work. It's kind of odd when she climbs up to have a pee in the sink while a friend is over (her tail twitches and her eyes shut halfway and she pointedly tries to make eye contact - it's really, um, weird). I see it as a positive thing. I don't have to scoop pees, just poops. I have NEVER ONCE, not even that very first time, discouraged her from this habit. I am utterly terrified that discouraging her will cause her to find elsewhere - like a pillow or something - to pee. I actually even praise her for it.

Let's see, what else....

Oh, she likes to destroy things. Especially to bury her leftover food. She'll drag things from elsewhere to take apart and cover the food. She knocks over trash bins, just for fun I think. She LOVES to "pretend" to eat plastic - ALMOST never actually puts the plastic into her mouth, just licks and then chews the air around it - SO weird - but as a precaution I try to never, ever have plastic in the house. You wouldn't believe how limiting this is. No plastic grocery bags, no wrappers, no packing materials, etc. It's actually very inconvenient, but it's MUCH more convenient than a gut blockage!!!!

So, all of these "problems" aside - I love Maia to bits. She is AMAZING. I mean, holy Gods, my cat CLIMBS WALLS. She's just absolutely spectacular! I really enjoy her craziness, her personality.... She's really, REALLY unique.

What I don't love is that there are others out there, at least a couple that are possibly her half-siblings, that haven't been so lucky. Having a cat like Maia is NOT easy, and some folks who try give up. When they give up, they take the cat to the shelter, thinking someone will surely want a bengal, even a problem bengal. The trouble is, a problem cat gets put down. Maia is LUCKY. Most aren't.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 10:50 am 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:43 am
Posts: 31
Oh, a bit more - and do please tell me to shut up if you like, especially since we'll never know with certainty if Maia is, in fact, EG or just a mentally disturbed "normal" kitty....

Maia, at three to four years of age, has not bonded with me the way I expected a normal cat to bond. I've had her nearly a year now, and she's only in the last couple of months started to exhibit that I might be something other than a roommate. The morning and evening snuggles have only been going on for a couple of months. She lets me hold her, but it's got to be just right. I can play with her feet, ears, face, tail - she's EXCEPTIONALLY tolerant, really - but she won't hold still for almost anything. It's those little go-go-go feet that I wanted and love so much - she's always going!

With my previous cat (an extremely high-energy very small kitty), the bonding was quick and obvious. With Maia, I'm more like a thing she has, like Da Bird or a feather wand, only more interactive. I'm the can-opener. I'm the warm thing to sleep near in bed at night. My previous cat was very emotionally attached to me, I think; Maia isn't. I think she's getting there, slowly, but she's not there yet. Of course, if you get an EG kitten, you'll be bonding with it very early on, and things will be very, very different than they are with me and Maia. I'm just SUPER lucky that Maia is only an insane little beastie, and not a holy terror.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:41 am 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 1:43 am
Posts: 31
Ugh, so sorry for YET ANOTHER post - I swear, this is the last, and I can go back to being my lurkey self!

I just wanted to say, none of what I've posted is meant/intended to sway you for or against getting an EG cat. Nor do I mean to suggest that I think you should or shouldn't, or that I have any opinion of you if you do or don't. It's all just food for thought. And while I do have very strong personal opinions about the breeding of EG cats, I absolutely do not want to step on the opinions or rights of anyone to breed or buy them. I feel that anyone/everyone is equally entitled to feel however they want about them; as strongly opposed as I am to more of them being bred, I am glad that we are free to have different opinions about it, and absolutely respect anyone's right to breed or buy them, or to speak out against or for them. That's all now, I swear!


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:54 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:18 pm
Posts: 1212
Location: Portsmouth, England
Hi Beastlet - I think your post(s) were really informative and insightful to the pro's and con's of owning an EG.
If I was the OP I would learn a lot from your posts and have a good basis to make an informed initial decision.

Personally, I have an F4 who exhibits a number of EG traits - The devoted attachment, domination and 200% playfulness....on HIS terms!
He is 14 and still behaves like a maniac, while being the softest cuddlebug in the World at times. I get home from work to be greeted with abuse, then when I apologise I get given the tummy for rubs n kisses.

Hi sc0tt - As said in many, many posts, there is no right or wrong to owning (living with) an EG, but there is a state of preparedness you need to reach. I personally think you are brave to be considering this at the moment - Your relationship with Link could be destroyed if his position is threatened, and the EG could become so dominant over him that he becomes a timid boy. Or, of course, it could go the other way and the EG suffer. And finally, it could work perfectly.

I guess what I am getting at is: You will need to have a fall-back planned in the worst case scenario that it all goes awry. :wink1:


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 1:08 am 
Thank you all very much for your replies. I agree there is a point of preparedness you have to achieve and be able to maintain.

Beastlet, thanks for your long reply! It does certainly sound like she could be an EG. It is not a decision we are taking lightly so I do appreciate all your input.

@jodonut: I consider a true F4 EG anyways, even if TICA doesn't lol

I do think we may shoot for F3+ after all your guys advice.


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 Post subject: Re: Considering an F2
PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:05 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK


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