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 Post subject: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:27 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm
Posts: 1165
Hi guys

I'm having a few issues with Jagger at the moment and wondered if anyone had any advice!

I have never let my two out at night, I always try to ensure they are in by 10pm, however very occasionally Jagger goes AWOL and won't come in until 2/3am in the morning. They are however allowed out during the day.

Just lately, he's been hanging out next door but one in the evening and spends hours staring into one of their borders. So at 10pm, I trot out there with the flying frenzy to get him back indoors. I give him treats as a reward for coming in and he finishes his tea.

And then all hell breaks loose because he's not allowed back out. He will yowl his head off at full volume, pacing about and will take it out on Hendrix given half the chance. And he seems to forget to have a wee outside as well and although he is much better with his litter trays now, will physically try to open windows to get out if he needs one. A whole new level of angst is reached if he also needs a poo!

Once I've managed to encourage him to have his night time ablutions, eventually he will calm down. But last night he was having none of it and was shouting his head off for ages, and eventually came in the bedroom where I was trying to ignore him and get to sleep and shouted at the top of his voice and tried to jump on the window sill when the blinds were down. Frightened me to death!

So whilst I've tried the ignoring tactic, sometimes this just doesn't work and he's not getting any better. We've had to physically stop watching a film before and wear him out with the flying frenzy as he is so noisy and gets more and more agitated.

This behaviour started about three weeks ago for no obvious reason...

Now some of this may be fox related (again!) as this morning I had fox cubs in the garden so they are now big enough to jump the fences so may be disturbing him at night.

I just don't know what to do with him at night at the moment. Bearing in mind he should thrive on routine and we've always had the 'indoors at night' routine, I honestly don't know how to break this new habit of his to shout the house down every evening! Last night I did get up to him (I caved) and spent some time talking softly and making a fuss of him and it seemed to work but that's kind of rewarding him for being a little devil!

Any thoughts? I can't shut the bedroom door as Hendrix takes refuge with me when Jagger is like this and plus even when I have shut the door I can still hear his blood curdling noises and he will start scraping his claws down the door :rolleyes: :lol:

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Clare
Hendrix and Jagger, Brown Marble Boys (born 18 August 2013)
Hampshire, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 4:46 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8005
Oh Clare. I am so sorry Jagger is giving you such a headache. There is obviously something outside at night that is enticing him to want to stay out there. You continue to have issues with foxes. And I think those of us who have dealt with bengals who have been outdoor cats as well -- we have heard the howling to go back outside at any time. Raiden has gotten so much better over the years. But something has broken Jagger's nighttime routine of coming into the house for the rest of the night. All you can do is put your foot down and let him scream. Eventually -- it takes a couple of weeks -- it will stop because you aren't giving in to him. And, if it doesn't, then a cat behaviorist may be able to offer some advice. Right now I can't recall if it was Hendrix or Jagger who went missing all those weeks. I think it was Hendrix. So, not sure why Jagger is being the problem this time around. Since currently it is only you having to deal with this (and not Jon), I would just let him scream and not give in. My issue is that Raiden not only wakes up me, but he wakes up my husband as well -- who is not happy about it. Since you let the cats out during the day, you would think they would be happy to come in at night. Try to keep the routine going at all costs! Or get Hendrix to talk to Jagger about his behavior! LOL


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:55 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm
Posts: 1165
He's totally mugging me off tonight. He has been out literally all day but normally when I get home I get a welcoming committee. He still wasn't home and I couldn't find him with his pod as he was no doubt under a gps blocking bush. He's had some tea and there was the prospect of thunderstorms and as soon as it started raining and I heard a rumble of thunder, I went to get them both in. Hendrix came running in, jagger saw me but refused to play and ran off. Little so-and-so.

I have just located him back at next door but one's drive where he is no doubt mesmerised by their border.

I get the feeling he's not going to fall for the flying frenzy tonight so I'm hoping it starts to rain again and he comes home for his supper and doesn't kick up a storm when he realises he's in for the night. If only he had a volume control!

The fox situation is much improved this year Sherry! No fox poo all over the lawn and none of the nasty presents of bags of used nappies or whatever I used to find every morning. This morning was the first I'd seen of the youngsters in our garden.

I can hear rumbles of thunder again, I wish he would just come home where I know he is safe if he gets freaked by the storm!

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Clare
Hendrix and Jagger, Brown Marble Boys (born 18 August 2013)
Hampshire, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:01 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8005
Clare, I understand where you are coming from. The black and white kitty I take care of worries me to death! He has been staying inside during the heat of the day. He didn't go outside this morning until about 2:30 a.m. and was back ready to come inside at 5:30 a.m. I go looking for him when he's not around -- he usually doesn't travel very far, but enticing him to come out from under cars is not easy and he is a solid, muscular kitty that is a heavyweight to carry for blocks. I just hope Jagger doesn't find any trouble. Who knows what has gotten into him. At least you have the Pod Tracker. Legs never got used to a collar, thus the Pod Tracker is still in the box. Your boys are adventurous, to say the least, and I know they worry you to death! Happy to hear the fox issue is so much better.


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 8:25 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm
Posts: 1165
Hi Sherry, I thought pets were supposed to be good for your health, whereas ours just give us added stress :evil:

Thought I'd hit the jackpot last night. I went out with the flying frenzy, called him and he instantly came in and was as good as gold. Had a bite to eat and got straight into his radiator bed in our bedroom. Not one meow or howl of protest. However, when we were both out the front a fox appeared from next door and we all had a staring contest until I moved towards the fox and it ran off. So maybe he was happy to be indoors after the close encounter!!

All was well until 3.30am when he got up for a wee and he started howling. He had his wee (once I'd given in and got up to him), I gave them both some treats and then they both settled down again. I suppose at least a bit of progress was made though?!

The night before I thought I'd have an easy night as it was literally chucking it down and no way did I think he'd want to go out, but he still howled for a good hour when I got him in and kept trying to open the windows and taking it out on Hendrix. Poor Hendrix, he does put up with a lot. He's always happy to be home and dry indoors after his three weeks living rough. Barely leaves the garden these days. I tend to find him on the water butt staring behind the shed for hours on end. God knows what they both stare at as I can't see anything!

Jagger is a horror!! I'll just have to persevere but I know he's heading for an all nighter and there's going to be a night he won't come in for me. The toad.

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Clare
Hendrix and Jagger, Brown Marble Boys (born 18 August 2013)
Hampshire, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 4:50 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8005
Clare, I wonder how Jon is going to deal with Jagger when he is home. A howling bengal is not fun! Raiden will get up in the middle of the night and start to yowl and I try to get him to come back to bed. Nope, he hops on his cat wheel, uses his scratchers, gets up on the dresser and starts knocking things over and onto the floor. I threaten to KILL him. It doesn't work!!! My blood pressure goes sky high because I want to go back to sleep!!! :biggrin:


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:28 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm
Posts: 1165
He's already experienced it! This behaviour started before he went back to sea. I think it bothers me more than him though, he's really good at 'not hearing' - too many years in an engine room I think, I swear he's deaf!!! I've been googling the issue. Apparently I should reward jagger when he's quiet. But he's never quiet long enough :lol:

Maybe I need to come to an agreement with the foxes for them to put in appearance whenever I get jagger in! And then I need to work on jagger using the litter tray without wanting me there!!

Yes I'm also familiar with the knocking things off the side, using noisy toys, anything that will get your attention - bengals are so bloody minded and determined! Well jagger is about to discover that I can be too!

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Clare
Hendrix and Jagger, Brown Marble Boys (born 18 August 2013)
Hampshire, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Mon Jul 24, 2017 4:14 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8005
Well, it may be typical of men. My hubby can tune out Raiden's crying and sleep through it. I can't!! Jagger is into his "terrible two's" right now! LOL. Seriously. How can we convince other bengal owners that their kitties will act like two-year old toddlers forEVER! :biggrin:


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:11 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm
Posts: 1165
Jagger continues to rebel against all discipline and refuses to behave himself!!! :mad:

I'm back to the treatment plan advised to me by the behaviourist and as usual, as he realises I'm clamping down, his behaviour has become worse.

The good news is that whilst he is being an utter pest to Hendrix, Hendrix is having none of it and is also trying to bring him back into line. Hendrix is the 'top cat' and the calmer of the two and is always on a higher perch than Jagger. Which in itself is aggravating Jagger! As soon as he sees Hendrix on the top perch of the conservatory cat tree, he bounds up to the level below and swats him which of course ends up in bit of a brawl. Hendrix is the one to commence the allogrooming which is apparently because he is trying to calm Jagger, as well as a sign Jagger is lower in status - it works for 5 minutes and then Jagger is off again. Jagger even tried to nip me one night and has raised his paw and swatted me when I've removed him from tormenting Hendrix.

So right now, he is getting nothing on demand and I make a point of feeding Hendrix first. He is regularly going into a timeout room - although that sets him off even more and he shouts the house down and takes an age to calm down. The visits to the timeout room are way longer than they used to be as a result. When he is calm he gets lots of fuss and a treat or two, together with Hendrix.

I think part of the problem is they are pretty close in status, but now and again, Jagger gets too big for his boots and tries to 'oust' Hendrix from his top cat status. Hendrix however treats him with utter disdain when he's in one of his moods.

I've just bought some 'Pet Corrector' condensed air canisters so I'm going to see if that helps when he's being a pest to Hendrix so I'm not forever telling him off and I've put him back on zylkene to try to calm him down. Feliway is plugged in again too. Not sure if there is another cat in the neighbourhood to trigger this behaviour, I've certainly not seen anything. We have had such a calm and happy house up until recently, its so frustrating!!

If anyone has any other ideas for me to try I'd be very grateful, the sooner he remembers I'm the boss, the better!! I'm weary of it all!!

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Clare
Hendrix and Jagger, Brown Marble Boys (born 18 August 2013)
Hampshire, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8005
Clare, I don't know what to recommend. Sometimes, nothing seems to work. Something changed in Jagger's world -- plain and simple.


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:26 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm
Posts: 1165
Hi Sherry

Yes, but I just can't work out what it is this time! Being on zylkene is definitely helping with his litter box, not so much fuss now before using it and I don't have to be with him. But last night he didn't want Hendrix to be on our bed and there was handbags between them. It had all been going quite well up until that point.

Eventually they both settled in the living room which was lovely as I had the bed to myself.

Jon's back Tuesday so there will be another change in routine. I may have a word with the lady whose drive he spends so much time in - see if she's seen anything that is causing him to spend so much time there. I need to rule out a territory dispute with another cat just in case.

He can be such a sweet boy but he certainly has the devil in him at the moment. I bought new bedding last weekend which he's decided to beat up at every opportunity and it's already snagged and has claw holes all over it! He's also taken to dragging himself up on the bed by claw power as opposed to jumping - which again is wrecking my lovely new bedding!! :mad:

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Clare
Hendrix and Jagger, Brown Marble Boys (born 18 August 2013)
Hampshire, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:38 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8005
Clare, I hope things improve while Jon is home. Something has gotten into Jagger. I'm guessing it isn't anything medical or neurological. Are there any bad effects from being on this drug for any length of time? I know it's easy to throw your hands up and say "I give up." Does that cat behaviorist have any other ideas? Do you use the video portion of the Pod Tracker to see exactly what Jagger is seeing while outside? That may be a clue! It's worth a shot.


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:06 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm
Posts: 1165
I wouldn't keep him on it indefinitely - however the vet doesn't even class it as a drug, just a good supplement. It is after all, just a milk protein.

Something in his world has definitely gone awry. I spoke to my immediate neighbour yesterday, he said Jagger hasn't been to see them lately, and he generally would make an appearance every morning. He's also not going in the back gardens behind us as much. So as ever, it looks like foxes are upsetting him. They're not in our garden, but my neighbour said one of the youngsters is in his garden a lot, digging holes in his lawn.

I'm thinking his territory has shrunk as a result as he usually has quite a wide area that he covers, but not lately. I'm going to record an adventure with him tomorrow to see just how much his world has shrunk. He won't go where the foxes are and whilst things are much better in our garden, the foxes are clearly in other areas of his territory. It wouldn't bother Hendrix as he stays close to home anyway.

Maybe this is going to be annual problem until the youngsters disperse.

So frustrating!

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Clare
Hendrix and Jagger, Brown Marble Boys (born 18 August 2013)
Hampshire, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8005
I'm guessing the situation with the foxes will improve once colder weather sets in. Right now, the kits are out learning about the outside world. Sometimes, the territory is just not big enough for two creatures. I know you said the video takes away from the battery on the Pod Tracker, but if you can record a couple of adventures and just see what is going on from Jagger's angle, you might spot something. If a fox pops up in the picture -- you got it!


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 Post subject: Re: Jagger the Rebel
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:52 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 02, 2014 8:11 pm
Posts: 1165
I've completed adventures for all his outdoor time so far today, he hasn't been to his usual haunts at all. You only get a map showing their route around the neighbourhood though, the pod doesn't contain a camera. He always used to be in the two garden immediately behind us ever since he started going out. Hasn't gone near those gardens at all. And he's home much quicker too, he normally goes out first thing and you don't see him again until late afternoon. Every day this week he's been home not long after I've left for work and not done anything for the rest of the day until I get home.

I found a book on cat behaviour though that is a really interesting read. It says that a cat is heavily influenced by experiences up until around 2 years old when they become socially mature and effectively those experiences will define their personality and behaviour as an adult. It was in that time period jagger was attacked by a fox, the fox chased him into our conservatory whilst fighting him.

So I'm going to keep reading to see if I can find a better coping method for what looks like a possible annual occurrence!

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Clare
Hendrix and Jagger, Brown Marble Boys (born 18 August 2013)
Hampshire, UK


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