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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 12:58 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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I read everywhere claims that a male sprays unless neutered. However, I met online people who have fertile males that never sprayed. Some of them have a single fertile male in the household, some just recently added a female and some have a pair... but each didn't have more than one male cat in the house. They claim their males do not spray. Yet, the forum and internet speak volumes about males spraying if not neutered, and may even spray even if neutered.

I'm planning to bring a male Bengal to my female Bengal before the end of the year. But honestly the spraying issue is a concern.

1) Does all fertile male Bengals spray?
2) Is there a way to eliminate spraying without neutering?

Looking forward for answers from first hand experiences... Thank you in advance.


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 4:27 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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First of all - ALL male cats have the ability to spray -- neutered or not! Mine was neutered at 12 weeks and sprays in the house, in his enclosure, and out on our walks. He has started to hop on his cat wheel and spray. I just cleaned two spots from it today. Note that unneutered males have a much stronger smell of urine.

Just check out some of the breeders' websites. They almost always separate the male due to the spraying. If you find a breeder who claims their males do NOT spray -- they are either lucky and in the bottom 1% or they are lying.

There is absolutely NO WAY to stop a male from spraying. It's their nature! It's how they mark their territory against other cats. If you try and block a spot the cat has been using, he will find another location. Raiden actually has two rooms (including our bedroom -- the headboard above my husband's pillow -- and he marks while we are sleeping).

This is why a lot of breeders do not have any males. They send their queen off to be mated.

I think it is wonderful that you are asking a lot of questions because you would like to breed Snickers. Obtaining a stud is the easiest way to go, but you now have to have the set up. Studs need to be separated from the queen until they are mated. The queen needs a birthing area and the stud can't be anywhere near it. Those who breed create the most incredible habitats for their studs and queens. It all costs money if you want to do it correctly.

And you always get that owner who wants just one litter of kittens. I'm sure you remember the post recently of a member whose queen was pregnant and couldn't figure out why she hadn't given birth yet. She went looking and found five dead babies. And asked "what happened?" One never leaves a pregnant queen alone for too long. You keep checking on her over and over again and follow her around -- UNLESS you have a separate birthing room where you can keep an eye on her 24/7. And a birthing area is absolutely necessary.

Recently, there was a post on Facebook from an owner whose cat had delivered one kitten and it had been a while -- and asked, "do you think she is finished or are there other kittens?" A lot of breeders take the queen to have a sonogram to determine the # of kittens and if they are healthy. Obviously, this person did not. That first kitten died but the mother delivered a few more hours later.

I'm just saying it is not always an easy go! There are some breeders who are experienced and capable enough to perform a C-section on the mother. You need the experience to help the mother if she is having a very difficult time delivering. Most of the times things go okay ... but many times they don't.

There are supplies you must have on hand: First aid supplies, plus kitten formula, syringe and kitten bottles just in the event you have to help. A queen recently had NINE kittens and the breeder ended up supplementing their feedings by hand because mama Nala just could not produce milk enough for all of them. This breeder also lost a queen who had just given birth to three kittens -- her potassium levels had elevated and she had a seizure while at the vet and they could not save her. Thankfully, she had a queen who had just given birth to a sole kitten and took on these orphans.

Yeah, it's nice to think about having a litter of bengals, selling them for big bucks, waving those dollar bills, but there is so much more to it, if you want to do it right. Kittens should be weighed weekly. They need to have their first round of vaccinations and a wellness exam to make sure they are doing fine. They need to be eating solid food and using a litter box before they are sent home with new owners. And, most of all, they need to be socialized.

This is not something I would undertake in a million years. But ... everyone is different. You can talk with breeders who will give you the pros and cons as there are many on both sides. We all see the cute little kittens on their websites. But they never post about all the work that goes into successfully having a great litter of kittens.


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PostPosted: Sun May 14, 2017 5:14 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Thank you as always Sherry for your informative response. I'm sure I posted this before, but here it's again: I'm not after money to sell a kitten nor have an issue setting up the best for birthing area from staff to furniture.

I'm debating few options and I just wanna make sure I make the right choice so I don't regret it in the future. Although this thread is not related to all of these options, but I'll share what is.

1) spay Snickers and get her a neutered male (or female as companion).
This seems the least headache of the other options. But every time I get keen to this option, I become concerned that neutering is a one way ticket, and I may regret this decision later on.

2) keep Snickers fertile and get her a male for breeding.
It's very appealing to me to have a family of Bengals. But my concerns are the kittens in the future for Bengals are not like normal cats. I'm afraid he/she who adopts a kitten may not take good care of the kitten or may get bored or annoyed after a while. And no matter what due deligent a breeder may do, still the adopter (or one in their household) may abuse/mistreat the kitten in the future. The moral and responsibility of this matter is something that terrifies me for the moment that I'm working on figuring out. Add to that the spraying of the male, that I'm currently studying.

3) spay Snickers and get an F1 Bengal or F1 Savannah for companionship.
I already did my homework on this option. My only concern is that if something happens to me, no one can take care of an F1. It's too much commitment and struggle to my family or friends.

4) spay Snickers and get a Toyger for companionship.
My turnoff about this option is that while Toygers are pretty but they're not naughty like Bengals and Savannahs. And personally I like naughty troublemaker pets.

Snickers should be spayed (or not) after three months, therefore I'm doing my homework well and studying all options thoroughly. My decision will never be based on financial requirements or benefits. But as demonstrated above, on responsibility that I'd be undertaking.


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PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2017 5:04 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
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Oh boy, you certainly have a few dilemmas going on here. At least you've given yourself the options and you just have to select one.

You should eliminate #4. You need to have a second cat with the energy to keep up with a bengal. This should be another bengal. A savannah will grow to double the size of your bengal -- and if that savannah is a male, there could be huge territorial and aggression issues. I'm not sure the Servials and ALCs get along in the wild. If you were to go the savannah route, please get an F4 or higher! An EG savannah with an SBT bengal might be a problem.

The main thing to decide is to whether to let Snickers have a litter of kittens. Every breeder tries to ensure their kittens go to great homes. But, I read on Facebook from all the breeders I follow, "something happened and Ebony has been returned to us and has to be re-homed." I'm sure out of 100 kittens, maybe one gets returned.

The other thing is that Snickers is either your pet or she's a breeding queen. There is a difference. You can let her have one litter and see how things go. Then she can be spayed. Once spayed, you can't reverse it to have kittens.

That still leaves the issue of a stud. Once you get one, you are pretty much in the business of breeding. You don't buy a stud for one litter. And I will say that with many breeders, the studs go back and forth and all around the world. You don't want to get attached to a stud and if he is spraying all over mankind, you probably then don't really mind. Would Snicker's breeder have a stud (not Snicker's dad) that she could be mated with?

Snickers is young and still has some time. Most females are bred after their first heat (so the yowling can be annoying). And after a female has kittens, she can go into heat again before they are completely weaned -- more yowling for a male. If you are up for this and are prepared to deal with this ... and you want a bengal family of kittens running around where you can keep a kitten and get Snickers fixed, then do it! There is no law against this. I do think another bengal would be best for Snickers and not a Savannah or Toyger or any other breed. It somehow sounds as if you want to have a home filled with exotic animals, which is fine ... if you have the room and the heart for them all. :biggrin:


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PostPosted: Wed May 17, 2017 4:42 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
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I just wanted to comment that Cool Creation of Panthera and Drinkwater Melody (grandparents on the side of Ingoy's Pure Passion have HCM positive cats as offspring (Ingoy's Design Of Tomorrow and Ingoy's Wild Reaction).

LeoPaws Running Wolf and Pendekar Golden Sinaran (grandparents on the side of Ingoy's North Queen) also had an HCM offspring (Ingoy's Running Wind).

I mention this so that you can have Snickers checked out. You never want to breed a cat with HCM.


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PostPosted: Sat May 20, 2017 1:18 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Sherry wrote:
I just wanted to comment that Cool Creation of Panthera and Drinkwater Melody (grandparents on the side of Ingoy's Pure Passion have HCM positive cats as offspring (Ingoy's Design Of Tomorrow and Ingoy's Wild Reaction).

LeoPaws Running Wolf and Pendekar Golden Sinaran (grandparents on the side of Ingoy's North Queen) also had an HCM offspring (Ingoy's Running Wind).

I mention this so that you can have Snickers checked out. You never want to breed a cat with HCM.


This thread went off topic and got derailed by the quoted post, nevertheless, I'll address it.

I went through hell in the past few days worrying about Snickers health, and here's the update:
1) the breeder confirmed that both Snickers' parents have been tested by their breeder before buying them, and both were HCM free. And she has the certificates to prove it. And unfortunately my breeder lives in a city where they don't test for HCM to check Snickers parents now as they became adults.

2) I took Snickers to the vet this morning who told me that testing her at 3.5 months old for HCM will not rule out the possibility of developing HCM in the future. The test will just confirm she doesn't have HCM now. And since she has no symptoms, it'll be waste of money (150 USD) and will not bring the matter to conclusion. He advised to bring her when she reaches 60% of her mature weight (she's now 1.7 kg) or before breeding her to check her up.

My decision is to cross the bridge once I get to it. So far I didn't decide if I'll breed Snickers or not. And if I decide to breed her, I'll get her tested before doing so. But this is not my concern... I'm concerned about her wellbeing and life quality and longevity.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:30 pm 
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Bengal Cat

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I think the safe route is to assume the male will spray (females sometimes do too) since that is the most likely scenario.

Are you able to either put up with it in your home or build a proper enclosure/house for the male? What if the place they choose to spray is your bed?

Also, If you rent an apartment then I would not dare do this. It could mean eviction.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:45 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2017 6:24 pm
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tamberav wrote:
I think the safe route is to assume the male will spray (females sometimes do too) since that is the most likely scenario.

Are you able to either put up with it in your home or build a proper enclosure/house for the male? What if the place they choose to spray is your bed?

Also, If you rent an apartment then I would not dare do this. It could mean eviction.


You just wrote a horror story in very few lines ;)

Both parents of Snickers spray, so she's very likely to spray in time too unless I discover a magic potion that could prevent that. ;) The male kitten I'm considering is only two weeks old now. So I still have time to decide.

Next month I'll begin my search for a new apartment to accommodate them both with dedicated playgrounds and sufficient catification.

Both kittens will be licensed for breeding. But within July or August maximum, I'll make up my mind either to neuter them both or give them a chance.


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PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:00 pm 
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Bengal Cat

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Another thing I thought of if you are going to live in an apartment is yowling/noise, my 1st bengal got spayed after her first heat (vet would not do it until at least 6 months of age but this was 12 yrs ago in a small town) and she was incredibly LOUD when in heat, much louder then her normal 3am yowls. If I lived in an apartment building or duplex she would have surely woken up the neighbors at 3am too and most landlords won't stand for a yowling cat waking up other tenants at 3am.

I just want you to think of all the possibilities because obviously we don't want a landlord telling you that you have to get rid of the pets or get out.

Keep in mind it can cost a hefty amount to repair floors/walls where a cat has been spraying. Some land lords will do more than just keep a deposit and seek out $$ for repairs through legal means.

It's all a scary thought but a reality if you are renting. I've never had a lease that would allow me to breed any pets, most had clauses against it or a statement saying pets had to be spayed/neutered, they never asked for proof but obviously if they find out a person has a litter of kittens, then the leasing rules have been broken and they could possibly evict.

I am in the states though, not sure how it may work elsewhere.

Now if you owned a house, then you could do whatever you wanted and only have to worry about keeping yourself and your pets happy.

I just had to move because my landlord (large company) screwed up and never put the paper in my lease that said maximum 3 pets, and when I told them I was getting a dog, they never said a thing about it. It was only later they remembered I had 2 cats already. They couldn't kick me out since that page was missing from my lease but they wouldn't let me sign a new one once the lease ended.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:21 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Let me see if I can help on a few of these:

We have never had a male stud that has sprayed so far. That being said, we have never had more than 1 male cat at any time and he's never been caged. Since reaching sexual maturity we've never had our males with another mature male. That may be part of the equation; or we could just be really lucky. Also, once a cat starts to spray, I have never heard of them stopping outside of neutering and, as you said, in some cases they will still spray despite neutering.

Intact Females can spray too; so don't assume that it's just a male issue.

Personalities of cats are different when they are intact. Intact cats tend to be less affectionate / more aggressive (though I will admit that nothing beats the affection of a female in heat (if you can stand the noise)). You can also get additional behavioural issues when the female is in heat. It's not uncommon for our queens to pee inappropriately when they are in heat.

One female will not be enough for an intact male - once she's pregnant he's going to have months of hormone build up and no one to "play" with. This will also cause issues for you. If you want to keep him happy you'll need to find additional females for him and that also comes with risks too.

Another thing you need to worry about is Pyrometra. A very serious condition that only impacts intact females. Every time they go into heat and don't get pregnant there is a higher and higher risk. It's a life threatening infection; every breeder is aware of it and dreads it.

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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 9:22 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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ontariobengals wrote:
Let me see if I can help on a few of these:

We have never had a male stud that has sprayed so far. That being said, we have never had more than 1 male cat at any time and he's never been caged. Since reaching sexual maturity we've never had our males with another mature male. That may be part of the equation; or we could just be really lucky. Also, once a cat starts to spray, I have never heard of them stopping outside of neutering and, as you said, in some cases they will still spray despite neutering.

Intact Females can spray too; so don't assume that it's just a male issue.

Personalities of cats are different when they are intact. Intact cats tend to be less affectionate / more aggressive (though I will admit that nothing beats the affection of a female in heat (if you can stand the noise)). You can also get additional behavioural issues when the female is in heat. It's not uncommon for our queens to pee inappropriately when they are in heat.

One female will not be enough for an intact male - once she's pregnant he's going to have months of hormone build up and no one to "play" with. This will also cause issues for you. If you want to keep him happy you'll need to find additional females for him and that also comes with risks too.

Another thing you need to worry about is Pyrometra. A very serious condition that only impacts intact females. Every time they go into heat and don't get pregnant there is a higher and higher risk. It's a life threatening infection; every breeder is aware of it and dreads it.


First of all, thank you for your contribution to this forum. I'm following every single thread you're contributing to over the past few hours, as I highly appreciate your insight.

Second thing, I've checked your FB Page, and you truly have kittens with stunningly unique faces. I don't think I saw other breeders who have them.

Lastly, today I decided not to proceed with breeding. My decision disappointed the breeder of my current almost 5 months old female kitten as she believes I have a show quality kitten (her words) that deserves to be given a chance to have at least a litter or two. And I'm afraid my decision angered the breeder of the spoken-of 2 weeks old male kitten as she didn't even comment or respond to my message.

I have spent extensive hours online between websites, vets, breeders, forums and Facebook pages/groups searching for a magic potion that would solve the spraying and howling... but all in vain. It seems it'd be a multi-million dollars discovery, if existed.

How I wish to have a house full of kittens all year long, but not at the price of howling and spraying. For me, isolating the cats to breed is not an option as I like to interact with them when I'm around in the house.

The bottom line, breeding would've been an emotional decision. And now I'm facing reality with a rational decision. I plan to spay Snickers after one month as she turns 6 months old. And since I have no deadline to catch, in time I'll add a male pet for her.

I feel so selfish for deciding to spay her... and I salute you successful breeders for having a paradise of kittens at home.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:31 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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I comend you on your thoroughness Hassaan. I've been very interested in all of your research and insights. I can tell your disappointed by not being surrounded by Snickers' kittens, but I think you've made a long thought out and rational decision. You'll still have 2 beautiful fur babies to spoil the heck out of, without the worry and stress of breeding and all of the associated issues.


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2017 3:54 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Hassaan, I know you have pondered over this for weeks. Ontario provided so much great information and I am so happy she is here posting (wish she would post more often. :biggrin: ). I don't know why your breeder would be upset. At any rate, you're doing what is best for your situation. I hope Snickers gets spayed before she goes into heat -- the risk of her spraying will increase if she's allowed to experience her first heat.


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