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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 10:24 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Hello all


We are relocating to Seattle from UK and are bringing our cats and I am keen to do the paperwork myself for bringing them to USA as it costs a lot of money to have it sorted out by someone else.
I left it to hubby and he is freaking out saying he can't figure it out. I have not started yet researching this but just want to get some idea how complicated it is and what do I need.

I have received pedigrees from Tica (my lovely breeders sorted that out for me), but what else do I need.

Has anyone tried importing/moving bengals from UK to USA?

Any help appreciated

Martina


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:20 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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The only information I can give you is that it's very possible Bengals are not allowed in the city of Seattle. As of the last time I looked at various US cities: http://www.bengalcat.com/flier.pdf. This is 6 years old; so it's possible it changed; however, as of 2010 - Bengals are illegal in Seattle.

Quote:
The Director in charge of Seattle Animal Control, Mr. Don Jordan, stated in an email to me on January 21, 2010, the following: “The City of Seattle defines exotic animals to include, but not imited to, all animals of the family Felidae (as lions, tigers, jaguars, leopards, cougars, or cheetahs) and their hybrid, except for the domestic cat Felis catus. Your email had specifically inquired bout the Bengal, Savannah, Serengeti, and Chausie hybrids which by definition are Exotic Animals and would not be legal within the Seattle City limits.”


I would definitely check into it and you may want to contact Seattle Bengals which are located outside of Seattle.

Good luck!

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:23 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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OMG :(
Seriously? I thought it was only if they are under F5

The way I am reading this is that any generation before it becomes a breed is banned and as I understand at F5 Bengal becomes a pure breed of its own whereas the early generations are hybrid.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:48 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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I found this and this is also my understanding on hybrids and domestic



" The Bengal cat breed resulted from cross breeding an Asian Leopard Cat (ALC-Felis bengalensis) with the domestic cat (Felis catus). The first three filial generations (F1 – F3) of these hybrid animals are referred to as the “foundation” generations. A Bengal cat with an ALC parent is called an F1 Bengal, short for first filial. They eat raw meat and will almost never use a litter box once they reach maturity. These hybrids are often prohibited and regulated by state, city and township laws such as in MN, IA, etc. An F1 then bred with a domestic male produces an F2, or second filial. Kittens from an F2 female and another domestic cat are then termed F3. Kittens from a subsequent F3 mating with a domestic are F4s. The F4 and later generations are considered domestic cats but still have many behavioral and health issues due to the hybridization."


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 10:19 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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This can't be right. If you google "Seattle" and "Bengals" it comes up with several breeders and even a bengal rescue (cool!). If bengals aren't allowed in Seattle, it must be a closely held secret :wink:

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:33 pm 
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I would be way more concern about importing than just buying a cat. I know sbt bengals have been taken away when entering other states like New York.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 4:54 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Based on my research, here is part of the statute:

M. "Exotic animal" means any species of animal that is both: (1) not a domestic animal, and (2) capable of killing or seriously injuring a human being. Subject to the preceding sentence, the definition of "exotic animal" contained in this section includes but is not limited to:

1. All animals of the order Primates (as primates) except humans;

2. All animals of the family Canidae (as dogs, wolves, jackals, or foxes) and their hybrid, except for the domestic dog Canis familiaris;

3. All animals of the family Felidae (as lions, tigers, jaguars, leopards, cougars, or cheetahs) and their hybrid, except for the domestic cat Felis cats;

#3 is the pertinent one. Hybridlaw.com states this: "All generations of hybrids are illegal in Seattle, WI."

As with most laws, you can interpret things many ways. An F4 generation bengal is considered a "domestic cat." However, a bengal cat is also a hybrid. How do they interpret the law???

Here is additional information pertaining to Savannahs in King County (where Seattle is located): "In addition, from Tim Anderson of the King County Animal Control specifically addresses Savannah ownership:

While some federal and state agencies consider a Savannah to be a hybrid, obviously no agency considered it to be wild. Under King County Code 11.28.020 (C) (4) only nondomesticated species of felines would be considered an exotic animal. Unlike canines it does not refer to hybrid felines."


It appears hybrid cats are allowed in King County.

I would definitely contact Seattle Bengals and ask them. They would definitely know.

There is ONE key thing I must mention here. You HAVE to go through all the proper channels and paperwork in order to bring the cats into the US. The Dept. of Fish and Wildlife confiscated several bengal cats that were being shipped here due to the lack of documentation. The new owners are not being given the cats, regardless. Do it right or your kitties will be taken away from you.

Also, I would love to have a copy of your kitties' pedigrees so I an add them to my database of bengal cats and their F generations. You can photograph them and send them to me in a private message -- or post here.

Good luck with everything.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 17, 2016 9:26 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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I can add that the US fish and wildlife confiscated 3 domesticated sbt bengals in the last few months. Both TICA and CFA have been trying to help with no effect.

Please be very careful. In one case I know they are F8+. They just don't care. I don't want you to end up in the same position as these families.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 1:07 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:41 am
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Location: London
Thank you all so much for words of wisdom. I will pay someone to do a correct paperwork and will consult a lawyer to clarify the law. Also I spoke to a Bengal breeder who said King's county is OK but city of seattle might not be. She is based in King's county. I understand we need the correct papers and I think it might be worth finding out more and also paying a professional to sort the paperwork.

Can someone tell me what CFA? Is it a registration body, like TICA?

Sherry - I have the pedigrees, will try to PM you.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 6:40 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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The CFA is the Cat Fancier's Association located in Ohio. One can register their cats, however, I believe they JUST recently started allowing bengals in their shows. I believe the ultimate registration is with TICA. Maybe someone here knows a little bit more than I do about the whole thing.

It is true that cities within a county can have their own regulations. And it is within their power to ban certain animals. A lawyer in the UK may not actually know all the rules and regulations.

U.S. Customs and Borders state this:

What are the requirements for bringing a cat into the U.S.?

As a general rule, there are no restrictions on bringing domestic cats into the U.S.

There are no vaccination requirements for cats, although cats arriving in Hawaii or Guam are subject to that state's/territory's quarantine requirements.

While a rabies (also known as rage) certificate is not required for entry into the U.S., domestic cats must be free of evidence of disease communicable to humans when examined by an inspector at the port of entry. If the animal is not in apparent good health, further examination by a licensed veterinarian may be required at the owner's expense.

If you are bringing your cat to the U.S. on an airplane, you should check with the airline in which you intend to fly as they may have additional requirements. For example, many airlines require a certificate of health from a veterinarian.


This is from the U.S. Fish and Wildlife website which specifically addresses bengals:

Do I need a permit to import or export my domestic cat?

You do not need a permit from us to import or export most domestic cats (Felis domesticus). Domestic Bengal cats, however, are hybrids of the domestic cat and the leopard cat (Prionailurus (=Felis) bengalensis). They are regulated by CITES and require a CITES permit. If importing a Bengal cat into the United States, contact the foreign country to get a CITES permit. If exporting a Bengal cat from the United States, click here for an application form. You must import or export your pet Bengal cat through a designated port unless you have received a port exception permit. You must notify the FWS wildlife inspection office at the port of entry or exit at least 48 hours in advance, present our declaration form to the wildlife inspectors, and receive clearance from us prior to export or at the time of entry. Click here for information on commercially importing or exporting wildlife. Contact the Center for Disease Control to meet its requirements.


I believe this is the documentation those three bengals were missing and why they were confiscated. Note it says nothing about the F generations of the bengal. A bengal is a bengal based on this. So this CITES permit is a requirement and you must follow the rules to the T or your bengals will not be allowed to go with you.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:30 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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My husband's firm is relocating us and we will have at our disposal several experts so will check if we can ask a lawyer (will be relocation lawyer so not UK) to check the law and I will write to US government too to find stuff out but I think we will need to get someone else to do this properly for us. Fees we were quoted are very high but I don't want to lose my cats so well worth it.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:59 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Sherry wrote:
I believe this is the documentation those three bengals were missing and why they were confiscated. Note it says nothing about the F generations of the bengal. A bengal is a bengal based on this. So this CITES permit is a requirement and you must follow the rules to the T or your bengals will not be allowed to go with you.


Here is some of the information the owner has shared on Facebook:

"SBT Bengals are legal in New York. It is New York City that does not allow all Bengals. We are located in upstate New York and have purchased all of our cats legally. My cats were seized at a Boston Airport. My cattery is registered, legal and veterinary checked."

"Bengals are domestic cats within the USA, however USFW governs international trade and consider them "wildlife" and therefore have jurisdiction over them entering the US. Mine were imported under their so called jurisdiction and seized because their GGGG+ grandparents were related to another breeders incident over 10 years ago. Unfortunately almost ALL bengals have these very late ancestors at one point or another and USFW is reaching way beyond the pedigree to dig for these names."

"It's a catch 22, EGs and F5+ are legal however what ultimately took mine was the VERY late ancestors related to another breeder that imported theirs in 2005 as DSH and was caught by USFW."

"They will hunt you down if you don't have pedigrees, you also need them in order to prove they are not early generations which require an additional CITES permit on top of the Import/Export license"

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 18, 2016 9:53 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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What a tangled mess! And just plain sad. I hope it gets straightened out at some point. Those poor kitties.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:59 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Ontariobengals - thank you so much, this is freaking me out.

CITES permit - what is it and how do I get one?

To be honest I will pass this on to the professionals even though the price quoted is astronomical but I also want to understand the process myself to make sure they do their job correctly as I would die if they confiscated my cats. I think I may email the government import people direct too in order to have some documentation. If we can't take them with us, we just won't relocate, that's how much we love them so I don't want to chance it at all.

It is very sad. They are the most affectionate and kind cats, never scratched me on purpose (only when landing one me mid flight), never lost their cool at the vet... not sure why they are classed as such villains :(

And to have your cat confiscated due to some discrepancy that went on ages ago is just so sad and unnecessary.
Poor you, x


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 7:34 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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It certainly did not help for a UK publication to classify bengals as terrorizing humans. But, if you think the bengal is getting a bad rap ... the Savannah is much worse due to its larger size and the fact that most are still earlier generation Savannah's. I don't even want to start trying to figure out the F generations for the Savannah's -- but at least I doubt there are many of them.


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