Hello all,

This will serve as an introduction as well as hope for a push in the right direction.

We recently purchased an 8 month old spotted snow white "Iggy" from a breeder in San Diego as a companion for our other 4 year old silver marble "Luigi". Two days after we brought Iggy home we took him to the vet to be neutered. Upon inspection the vet noticed Iggy had tapeworm. The vet administered medicine to eradicate the tapeworm and sent us home with another dose for Luigi. We had kept Luigi and Iggy separated for a couple days (sniffy each other out under the door), and swapping them rooms so they can get used to the smell of each other, as well as allowing Iggy to acclimate to the new environment. However, the vet said it was a very wise idea to treat Luigi as well as tapeworm and spread very easily. The surgery went well (orthoscopically and didn't use ketamine) and Iggy was running around like nothing happened just a few hours after bringing him home. The next day we introduced the two of them, surprisingly they got along better than we had expected. Of course they kept there distance, but there was no hissing/fighting. We would separate them when we were not home just to ensure nothing would happen. Luigi started showing signs of frustration with Iggy and was being moody (or so we thought...). He used to greet us by the door whenever we came home from work/school, was a chow hound, and never hid. A few days after the two of them being together we noticed Luigi had lost a little bit of weight. We began to monitor is eating habits and noticed he was just nibbling at his food (not eating the entire meal....not common for him). We continued to monitor him and did a lot of reading/consultation with the breeder and family members who all stated it is common for some behavioral/diet changes to occur upon introducing new animals together. The next day Luigi refused to eat his normal food all together so my wife got him all his favorite foods and he devoured a piece of salmon. That night he refused to eat again, and we had to spoon feed him baby food. (all this time he was drinking water on a regular basis and no changes in toilet visits (no diarrhea either)). We made the decision to bring him to the vet the next day if he refused to eat again in the morning. Well, that morning we fed him a can of fancy feast and he ate half of the can on his own. We decided to hold off on the vet visit as he did eat and we assumed it was just him giving a bit of attitude (big mistake). That night when I came home Luigi was at the front doorway laying down. He had absolutely no energy and had urine/feces on his fur. I went to clean him up with a sponge and warm water and he just moaned and couldn't support his weight. I then wrapped him up in a towel and placed him in his bed while I called a family member to discuss the situation. Shortly after he tried to get out of his bed and jumped down from our bed and just fell. I made the decision to take him to the emergency clinic right then and there. To our dismay Luigi passed away in the car during the short ride to the clinic. We did not have a necropsy done as it cost 1500 dollars and wouldn't bring our best friend back. The vet informed us that it was something serious, not just kidney problems or something of that nature, as it took him down in less than 78 hours. However without the necropsy it could be a million different things.

Two days later we brought Iggy to the vet to be checked out (he had also developed diarrhea the day after we had lost Luigi). (Blood/urine analysis, and feces inspection (not culture, just microscopic)). The vet declared Iggy seemed to be in good physical health from the outside (no swollen organs, no fever, no weight problems, coat was healthy, etc). He examined his feces and was in shock, immediately brought me to his microscope to take a look. Apparently Iggy has one of the worst Campylobacteriosis bacterial infections that he has seen in years. He gave us medicine that would combat this bacteria quickly and recommends a full culture of his feces after a week of treatment. The scary part of this is it is transferable to humans.

Now the reason I am posting this and asking for advice is we are looking to pursue legal action against the breeder. I contacted her upon the first notification that Iggy had tapeworms, then again after we had lost our other cat, Luigi, and found out Iggy had this nasty bacterial infection. She was distraught and asked us what we would like her to do. At that point I hadn't a clue, was just an informative call but I told her we would be in touch soon. I requested she pay the vet bills, as she sold us a sick cat that could have potentially killed our other cat (however, can't prove because no necropsy was done). She refused to pay the vet bills, because she doesn't have the money, but offered to bring us and the cat down to her vet in Mexico. This was completely unacceptable for us and we declined. I then asked for her to refund the money for the cat ($400) to help pay the vet bills (excess of $500 so far). She said she would refund the $400's only if we returned the cat, before she realized we had him neutered. I tried to be very reasonable and explain the situation to her, however she got very defensive and stated she did not sell us a sick cat and has hung up on me numerous times. I have contacted the humane society, and apparently she has had calls about her a few times in regards to similar situations. I have read some of the California State Laws regarding breeders and buyers rights, however it is a bit difficult to find a definite answer. So my question for you all is, do we have any legal grounds to take her to court A) to recuperate some of the fees associated with vet bills and Iggy. and B) Have her shut down for selling sick animals that can potentially lead to the illness of humans. We are not trying to sue her for everything she has got, as that is just not right. But we do however feel that it is her responsibility to pay for the vet bills associated with selling us a far from healthy cat. People of the internet, what are your thoughts?

I know this is a lengthy post, but I appreciate any help/advice you can give.

Thanks

Its very difficult - firstly im so sorry about the loss of Luigi, sounds like you have been to hell and back
With out a post mortem you cannot obviously prove the cause of death and this might be your sticking point - usually the theory is you bring a kitten/cat home and keep it separate to your resident cats for a good 1-2weeks. In that time a breeder will normally advise that you take the cat to your vet as soon as you can for a health check and if the vet finds anything wrong you have the right to a refund or replacement cat (obviously this all depends on the contract)

It could be argued that it was infact Luigi that had the tape worm and campylobacter and he in turn passed this on to Iggy. She has offered to return and refund Iggy which is a lot more then some would do but I understand you are attached to Iggy so its not that simple.
It could also be said that something was picked up at the vets and bought back into your home that could have infected both cats - afterall there are alot of germs at vets in the first instance.

I'm not sure if I'm being honest whether you will have a case - I think your best bet is to seek legal advice and take it from there - if you are certain thats the line you wish to take.

Sorry again for you loss and welcome to the forum.

You might also want to do some research regarding the salmon you gave

I just found this quickly http://www.littlebigcat.com/nutrition/w ... -for-cats/

The moral of the story is that cats very, very rarely "get upset" or "depressed" or "moody" and go off eating enough to lose weight with the introduction of another cat or the death of another cat or any other event that we then assume would upset them.
If a cat is not eating normally or drinking normally for any length of time, it needs to see a vet, as cats tend to hide illness and sometimes poor appetite is the only clue we get, until something disastrous happens.

How heartbreaking! It is a horrible story and I know you have to be hurt by the whole situation and I am sure VERY upset with the breeder. However, I agree that there is really nothing you can do to prove what really happened! Most people would agree that things probably happened in the way that you state, as it does seem that way to me! Does your vet suggest or believe that this is what happend to your cat? If so you might have a leg to stand on, but you have to ask yourself if this is something you really want to pursue? It can be a long heartbreaking road and it will keep those memories of what happened alive and fresh in your mind! I am not trying to pursuade you to drop it and move on if that is not what you want to do! I know the pain leads to anger and then you want her to pay for what she has done,I can't lie I would!!! I woud want revenge and I would want to shut her down. In the long run you have to consider what is going to help you and your wife the most! I think you best option would be to calm down and think things through, if you still want to pursue this option, seek legal advice and go from there. In any event I am TRUELY sorry for you lose and I can't imagine what it would be like. My best wishes are with you and your family in what ever you decide!

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Sorry to hear you sad tale. Losing a pet is awful and a horrific experience so my heart goes out to you.

With respect to the breeders responsibility:

Did you have any contract or agreement from the breeder? A health guarentee or similar?

How long did you keep the two separate?

How long had you had Iggi when you lost Luigi?

We're you able to visit the breeder before purchasing you new baby?


Sorry for the questions, I realise you wrote a lengthy post but these things may help to clarify some points.

I am to a fan of breeders who breed irresponsibly, i am often very vocal on here about this. i do not agree with breeding in cages and pens, i know these are commonly used initially but i feel 6-13 week old kittens should be running around experienccing textures and noises. However a few points are worth mentioning.

$400 is actually on the cheaper side for a US Bengal however he was a little older so that may explain why.

Tapeworm is a very common infection in cats. Especially those from multicat households. For Tapeworm to be obvious it would need to be an adult worm so would no doubt have come from the breeder. I am surprised that the breeder s kittens are not routinely wormed as this would have minimised the issue. However, tapeworm often needs fleas to help the issue. So she may worm sporadically but not de flea. All this said, it is not possible for Luigi to be sick from Tapeworm as it takes a much longer time than it had to grow into an adult worm. It is worth checking out the medication that the vet gave you as the side effects might have a rare complication. It is possible, although rare, that this may have caused Luigi's problem. I suspect not, but do look into it before taking any legal action.

Campylobacter is actually a fairly common bacteria found in the gut of healthy cats and humans for that matter. It is more common in cats from multicat areas such as rescue, shelter, Catteries and breeders. It is very rare for it to cause such issues that affected Luigi. Check out this: http://www.wormsandgermsblog.com/upload ... 20Owner(11).pdf

Unfortunately I don't think there is any legal cover for you regarding the loss of Luigi. It is commonly recommended to keep new cats separated from existing cats for 1-2 weeks until the new cat is considered healthy after a vet check and time to allow them to settle and their overall health assessed. Any legal action against the breeder will provide experts to testify to this.

The issue of you vet bills for Iggi. I am surprised at the amount that it is to be honest. It would cost not cost anywhere near that for me to treat a cat for the infection and tapeworm. I realise that US vet bills are often very different though. But I am sure the breeder feels the same given her response to get her vet to treat him. It is probable that she doesn't have the money for it as breeding doesn't always make money. The money you paid for him will have gone towards the cost of breeding him. That said, I do not know the breeder and how many cats she has and how big scale she is.

A lot of shelters here in the UK are very anti breeders so will often claim to want to shut down ones when people ask for advice. Not sure if that applies here, but worth mentioning. I would hope that the breeder acts on your advice and looks into why/how this has spread through her cats. Selling kittens with these issues is not necessarily a red flag to the breeder. It's how they deal with the information that is important. I don't want other people to assume a breeder is automatically bad if their kitten has a particular problem. If they are as bad as the humane society says then they should be stopped. Legal action may help, but may not. If you go through it then it is possible that it will bankrupt them as they will have to pay your money plus all legal fees which will amount to a lot. It just won't cost them the $500 or so that you would sue for. So think very carefully about this before you go down this route.

I would think carefully about what you want from it.maybe gets some legal advice.

Again, I am very sorry for you loss.

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Lollo

Sorry, I don't know anything about the law in your country, but....


...I was just thinking; Would it not be possible for you to obtain a court order for all of the breeders cats and kittens to be tested. If they're infected, then you have a case against them.
I would assume if they prove not to be infected then you would have to pay for the testing.

So very sorry to hear about your boy Luigi. Sounds similar to what I went through with the sweetest little silver Bengal kitten (4.5 months old) at the beginning of February. He was fine, then suddenly lost his balance, started having problems with urinating and was smelling of urine and within a few days of the start of this, he was gone....just one week after checking out fine at the vet. It is an abolutely devistating experience and I feel so bad for anyone else who has to deal with anything like this. I did not get a necropsy done, but we believe he had dry FIP. Fortunately, my breeder was very understanding and we reached an agreement quickly on refund or partial refund plus another cat (retired adult)

Hopefully your new boy gets healthy quick and thrives. There's no replacing your other cat, but hopefully he can make things a little easier like my current Bengal has for me

Although this all seems to be rather against you that is not my intention, but to point out holes in your argument, should you decide to proceed legally, I am not a lawyer.

Breeders can get scammed by owners demanding recompense for sick kittens.
Pet owners demanding vet bill payments, asking for a refund on the kitten and then refusing to hand over the "sick" kitten is not unknown.
Getting what amounts to a free kitten plus a tidy sum to boot, is a great scam. Breeders often get bullied and blackmailed into paying up too, as their livelihood and good name are on the line.
It is not unreasonable then for Iggi's breeder to want your kitten examined by her own vet to make sure what you say is true. You must have made the trip to Mexico in the first place to get Iggi, so what is wrong with repeating the trip? A legal person may say it is unreasonable for you to refuse. As an aside: Have you considered getting her vet to speak to your vet?

It is very unfortunate and heart breaking what happened to Luigi, but with no evidence to back it up, Luigi could have died from all manner of illnesses both acute or chronic, most of which would have nothing whatsoever to do with Iggi or Iggi's breeder. A legal representative could accuse YOU of neglect re Luigi in that he was obviously ill and YOU left him alone all day. That would be very unfair, but if you go to court then that may be levelled against you.
You may also be criticised for taking a kitten home and introducing it to you cat without quarantining it, to make sure it was fit and healthy. I am sure many do not quarantine with no ill effects, but the legal team may try and somehow blame you for Luigi's demise. It is all about painting a picture and casting you as the unreasonable one.

Tape-worms are probably not what any breeder wants in her kittens, but it is not a hanging offence, neither is Campylobacter. Worms are extremely common in kittens and it is why many breeders have a regime of frequent dosing, but a kitten spitting out the medication, or getting an inadequate dose, may result in infestation or re-infestation despite the most careful breeder husbandry.
Kittens are susceptible to all manner of bacteria, viruses and parasites, they are young and their immune systems are immature, they pick up things easily. As you yourself said Iggy looked great and only developed diarrhoea two days AFTER Luigi died, so how how could the breeder have known? Where the Campylobacter came from is anyone's guess, as Lollo pointed out it is a common enough bug . (The incubation period can be from 1 to 11 days but is usually 2 to 5 days.)

Getting a kitten is not the same as getting a washing machine, they are living animals,the are fragile and easily damaged, they can get ill, they can leave the breeder in perfect health and succumb to illness the next day or the next week.
NO breeder can guarantee a perfectly healthy specimen. That will be a core argument for her defence I would assume

Your kitten contract will show you what is expected from you and from her as regards the kitten. Do not assume anything else or try and re-write your own contract in your head now, as regards Iggi.
If it says you need to take Iggi to her vet to confirm any diagnosis, then that is what you will have to do, or if it says that she is not liable for infections past a certain time then that is what you signed up for. If it stipulates that refunds will only be given if the kitten is returned or a post mortem is done on a dead kitten, then that needs to be listened to.
Any legal person will hone in on any weaknesses on your part, and try and make it appear that YOU are the unreasonable one here.

The law is not necessarily "fair" to both parties, it depends on the circumstances. Although it may seem "fair" that you receive some sort of compensation for the death of Luigi and Iggi's illness, that may not happen.
I had my handbag stolen once, the thief was found and he was found guilty in court, but I received no compensation for the loss of my handbag and its contents, as he was in no position to pay.
So although it would have been "fair" for me to get my money back, circumstances decreed otherwise.

If it were me I'd:

1. Not try to pursue it further with the breeder. What happened was a horrible tragedy, and it may very well be the breeders fault, but it sounds to me like a) you'd have trouble proving any fault b) even if you did, it sounds like you'd have trouble getting money from the breeder.

2. Get a new vet. Again, from what you've said your vet may or may not have had some fault in this. But it just doesn't sound like the whole thing was handled real well with respect to your new addition.

3. Get another bengal (when you are ready). And absolutely not from the awful breeder (take the cat to a vet in *Mexico* are you KIDDING me?). Use all the stuff you've learned in this hard experience to do better next time and get a great cat.

Sorry again for your awful experience.

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The little monsters 3