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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:11 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Location: Berkshire, UK
As you seem to be pretty busy and haven't been able to handle the F1, I would strongly suggest that you stick to anything above an F3 bengal, if you have to get one. I really would avoid getting another cat from that breeder too, go to a more established, well known and respected breeder, one that let's their kitties run around with eachother.

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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:32 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:24 pm
Posts: 189
I'm new to Bengals but i don't understand why anyone would want an EG let alone an F1 as a pet? It can't be anything to do with looks as there is nothing to say that a F9 etc can't look better than an F1, if it's to do with wanting a wild animal than i find that very sad and cruel.

I don't really even understand why breeders are even creating F1's, is it not cruel considering the problems that can arrise. I wasn't aware of any need to expand the gene pool of Bengals due to specific breed problems. I can only assume it's down to greed on the breeders part as they will be able to sell to people with more money than sense.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:05 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat Apr 07, 2012 4:58 pm
Posts: 376
Location: Surrey, London, United Kingdom
mcjc wrote:
I'm new to Bengals but i don't understand why anyone would want an EG let alone an F1 as a pet? It can't be anything to do with looks as there is nothing to say that a F9 etc can't look better than an F1, if it's to do with wanting a wild animal than i find that very sad and cruel.

I don't really even understand why breeders are even creating F1's, is it not cruel considering the problems that can arrise. I wasn't aware of any need to expand the gene pool of Bengals due to specific breed problems. I can only assume it's down to greed on the breeders part as they will be able to sell to people with more money than sense.


I'm sorry to sound harsh but I find this very narrow minded.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:23 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:04 am
Posts: 735
Location: Colorado, USA
Exotics can make excellent companions -- I don't usually call them pets because they don't usually fit the bill for what society considers a "good pet." That said, I only support exotic ownership for people that know how and can care for them in the ways that they need.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 12:35 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:24 pm
Posts: 189
I don't find it harsh that you think my comment is narrow minded i was just expressing an opinion that i don't understand why people want EG. I don't pretend to know much about Bengals or cats in general but i can't understand why someone would wish to keep an animal that is essentialy wild in a domestic environment. I am far from being a cat lover (i don't even like the majority of cat breeds, only Bengals, Siamese, Orientals etc) but i am comitted to providing the best care and conditions for my Bengal as possible (raw home made diet, outside enclosure etc). I find this post so sad on every level, the breeder clearly shouldn't be selling cats in such an irresponsible way & why the owner purchased it is beyond comprehension.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 2:33 pm 
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Bengal Cat

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 8:13 pm
Posts: 25
Just as you stated being selevtive about the cat breeds you like, a lot of people would go as far as to say its cruel to own pedigree cats because of all the shelter cats that need homes, or they would say that the cats don't occur naturally they are just like EGs/bengals.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:05 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:24 pm
Posts: 189
i can totally see your point and understand what you are saying. Yes there are cats in shelters for one reason or another and your right it would be great if they could all be adopted, your correct & in a way i am being selfish in choosing a pedigree breed. But as i am happily comitted to providing a lifetime of care i'm hardly likely to choose an animal that i don't like (sorry if i offend anyone but it's the truth).

The real point of my arguement is that EG's are not considered as domestic pets so why can anyone who considers themselves responsible buy or sell them for that purpose. If someone has the facilities, knowledge, licence and comittment to keep wild animals then why not keep ALC's or Servals etc. The other point is why F1's are being produced and sold when there are plenty of breeders producing stunning kittens from much later generations.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:24 pm
Posts: 189
I've spent a bit of time this morning looking at information about EG's and i find it very strange, i have viewed a few websites selling F1's - F3's and see comments by the breeders that they can make excellent pets and companions. I don't understand how a breeder can make this claim as the true behaviour of an EG only develops around 8 - 14 months. An f1 kitten could appear fine until it reaches sexual maturity but then you have a 50/50 chance whether it takes on the domestic or wild side of it's parents.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:39 pm 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:12 am
Posts: 8
mcjc wrote:
I've spent a bit of time this morning looking at information about EG's and i find it very strange, i have viewed a few websites selling F1's - F3's and see comments by the breeders that they can make excellent pets and companions. I don't understand how a breeder can make this claim as the true behaviour of an EG only develops around 8 - 14 months. An f1 kitten could appear fine until it reaches sexual maturity but then you have a 50/50 chance whether it takes on the domestic or wild side of it's parents.


I enjoy reading the forum, and rarely feel the need to throw my 2 cents in, however there is a lot of misinformation about F1's and EG's written on this thread- which is a shame. (though Elaine and a few others speak wisely).

For instance, the above post- you cannot be serious? Have you actually had any experience of F1's apart from looking on the internet for a morning? How do you know that the true behavior of an F1 changes at around 8 - 14 months? I can tell you, that it most certainly doesn't.

The OP's situation is regrettable, the breeder was clearly not up to the task of raising a normal Bengal let alone an F1. And the OP should have spent more time in choosing the correct cat and breeder for themselves. (not visiting the breeder is a serious oversight)

Any kitten at 8 weeks old that hasn't been socialised correctly has the potential to be afraid of humans. I agree though this is intensified by the the kitten being an F1, however to cast blanket aspersions that every EG is like that is ignorant. Every cat, be they moggie, bengal or EG will be different in character and have potential to be problematic. I have met some seriously mean and badly behaved "domestic" moggies and Bengals- doesn't mean all of them are like that.

In my "actual" and "real" (i.e. I haven't read it on the internet) experience early generation Bengals are utterly incredible animals, more intense, athletic, intelligent and social than domestic cats and SBT Bengals. In terms of companionship they are off the scale, they are adaptable and they most certainly can live in the home with their human family extremely happily.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 11:17 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:24 pm
Posts: 189
Classicsport

You are correct i have got my information off the net - mostly from responsible breeders sites. You state that you have experience with f1's yet your post last year was that you where interested in getting an f2 and you had kept Domestic cats until then. I don't see how this makes your opinion any more valid than mine formed from info on the net. Your post almost encourages people to believe an EG makes a better domestic pet, maybe it's comments like this that leads to inexperienced people having problems.

An f1 requires a Dangerous Wild Animal licence in the UK, now i may be missing something but that does not say domestic pet to me.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:32 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 1586
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
mcjc wrote:
Classicsport

You are correct i have got my information off the net - mostly from responsible breeders sites. You state that you have experience with f1's yet your post last year was that you where interested in getting an f2 and you had kept Domestic cats until then. I don't see how this makes your opinion any more valid than mine formed from info on the net. Your post almost encourages people to believe an EG makes a better domestic pet, maybe it's comments like this that leads to inexperienced people having problems.

An f1 requires a Dangerous Wild Animal licence in the UK, now i may be missing something but that does not say domestic pet to me.

Well done Sherlock :mrgreen:
I'm someone who loves keeping dangerous and wild animals. But I can't recommend them to anyone. So generally I discourage anyone inquiring about keeping them. That's not to say that they won't make good pets. But you can't expect it, in fact you have to prepare and expect the worst.

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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:51 am 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:12 am
Posts: 8
mcjc wrote:
Classicsport

You are correct i have got my information off the net - mostly from responsible breeders sites. You state that you have experience with f1's yet your post last year was that you where interested in getting an f2 and you had kept Domestic cats until then. I don't see how this makes your opinion any more valid than mine formed from info on the net. Your post almost encourages people to believe an EG makes a better domestic pet, maybe it's comments like this that leads to inexperienced people having problems.

An f1 requires a Dangerous Wild Animal licence in the UK, now i may be missing something but that does not say domestic pet to me.


Congratulations indeed Sherlock, you read my post history. What that doesn’t tell you is that following that I visited many breeders, of both EGs and SBT’s across the country (I thoroughly enjoyed it, the passion and dedication these people show is tremendous) and circumstances arose where I was able to adopt 2 F1’s last year. Thankfully I ignored posts from people such as yourself and did my own research and came to my own conclusion about them.

My post was certainly not advocating that anyone can own an F1. You have to do the research and be prepared correctly. However the same could be said about any pet.

The DWAL is a well meaning and certainly vital piece of legislation- however it’s appropriate for animals that are actually dangerous.

What I have issue with is your assumption that because you “read it” on the net they make poor pets. Of course there are instances where they can be very difficult, but I remember when the Bengal breed was first introduced and how the naysayers advocated that because they had wild blood they were dangerous and had to be kept away from children even!

I also take particular exception to you stating that those who own F1’s are cruel (you can’t be serious?) and have more money than sense. Then of course saying all breeders who sell EG’s are greedy is so far off the mark it outlines how ignorant on this subject you are.

I suggest you actually go and meet the reputable breeders of F1’s in the country, see the cats for yourself and meet and talk to these dedicated people.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:33 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 2:24 pm
Posts: 189
My intention wasn't to intentionaly offend anyone. I was merely expressing an opinion & asking why f1's are still produced (the answer to which has not been answered by the way). I didn't say breeding f1's is cruel, i asked if it was considering the complications that can arrise from breeding wild animals with domestic ones, i don't have to be a cat expert to understand this is not an ideal situation. I do find it cruel that someone would choose an f1 just because they want a 'wilder' looking animal without consideration of whether they can meet the needs of a wild animal), it doesn't take a genius to work out that a cat with 50% wild animal in it may not make a domestic pet or that any cat's personality may well change as it reaches adulthood. And yes i do believe that later generation cats look better than eg's when they are the result of carefully selected breeding.


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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:36 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Joined: Tue Aug 14, 2012 3:42 pm
Posts: 1415
Location: Berkshire, UK
Yup the UK requires that you have a DWA licence for F1 generation bengals in UK. There are a few breeders who have this gorgeous animals but they are knowledgeable, have experience etc.

I would suggest that before purchasing any other F1, that you gain experience with the bengal breed. Why not try an F2 or F3, then in a few years if you want to branch out, go for the F1.

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 Post subject: Re: new f1 kitten
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:06 am 
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Bengal Kitten

Joined: Sat Jun 04, 2011 11:12 am
Posts: 8
mcjc wrote:
My intention wasn't to intentionaly offend anyone. I was merely expressing an opinion & asking why f1's are still produced (the answer to which has not been answered by the way).


I remember asking EG breeders the same, why did they do it- answers were always the same. Because they loved the breed, and they wanted to make the most striking and beautiful cats that were just that little bit more different.

mcjc wrote:
I didn't say breeding f1's is cruel, i asked if it was considering the complications that can arrise from breeding wild animals with domestic ones, i don't have to be a cat expert to understand this is not an ideal situation).


I point you to your previous post:

mcjc from previous post wrote:
I don't really even understand why breeders are even creating F1's, is it not cruel considering the problems that can arrise.


You are inferring that by breeding F1s it can be cruel, because “problems” that arise would be during ones ownership of the animal? Correct? Therefore it is perfectly reasonable to take this as an off hand, ill informed inference that F1 breeding and ownership is cruel.

mcjc wrote:
I do find it cruel that someone would choose an f1 just because they want a 'wilder' looking animal without consideration of whether they can meet the needs of a wild animal), it doesn't take a genius to work out that a cat with 50% wild animal in it may not make a domestic pet or that any cat's personality may well change as it reaches adulthood.


Well, Im still waiting with baited breath for mine to change their personality….Ill let you know when that happens, ;)

mcjc wrote:
And yes i do believe that later generation cats look better than eg's when they are the result of carefully selected breeding.


Well, thats your belief. Would you care to find some examples?


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