It is currently Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:54 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Pedigree question
PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:50 pm 
Offline
Bengal Kitten

Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:38 pm
Posts: 15
Hi Sherry

This question is for you sinde I think, that you are interested in pedigree questions. My question is not a normal pedigree question, though. But first I will introduce the pedigree names of my cats (or their parents).

Gina. She is registered as Felis Danica as Cheetapur's Cassata (HCM positive)
Stud: Canicspots Midnight Fires (HCM positive)
Queen: Desertbengals Chinie of Cheetapur
I think, she i a F8

Masai. He is registered at Felis Danica as Masai of Golden Haze
Stud: Saphirs de Lune Cougar Silver Magic
Queen: HotSpot Out of Africa
He is a F7

Rico. And here is, where the troubles start. I have bought him as a bedigreed cat but I never got a certified pedigree for him despite I have asked for it several times. (Later I discovered that there were others, who have bought from the same catery, that were in the same situation.) I have got though an electronic pedigree statinf his stud and queen. So lets think, that is the case, then his parents are:
Stud: Cheetahsden's Gryphon
Queen: Trollspotting Hsia Pei (her stud: Hyalite Touch of Frost, her queen: Trollspotting Siena)
Rico is a F7

But now my question. I would like to know how much wild blod there is in my cats. Roughly said, it must be a difference when I have two F6 mated or a F6 with a farm cat. Do you have data on that?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pedigree question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 5:11 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:04 am
Posts: 734
Location: Colorado, USA
By the time you get down that far, it's negligible anyway. You're talking a couple of percentage points this way or that way.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pedigree question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 4:29 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8089
I love it when I find people as interested in the bengal pedigree stuff as I am. You are correct in the F generations of your kitties. As for the wild blood %. It used to be available online through the bengal pedigree databases. However, since the U.S. Fish and Wildlife has been confiscating bengals imported into the US, the information has disappeared. I pulled the information off for my F9 bengal, which was 13.77% wild blood. One would assume a lower generation would have a slightly higher percentage, but it really depends on the number of ALCs in the pedigree and the other breeds present (Ocicat, Burmese, Somali, Abyssinian, Egyptian Mau, Bristol, American Shorthair etc). Also, when a mating occurs between say an F11 and an F5, which results in an F6, the F11 is going to lessen the amount of wild blood in the F6. Unless you are Esmond Gay, who produced a bengal with 90% wild blood through careful mating, this is really irrelevant. All bengals will have some ALC blood in them, but it is certainly not enough to make them a wild cat.

It is never too late to register a cat. Mine was registered when he was six years old. The parents of Rico are registered cats. Always a shame when a breeder doesn't follow through with the paperwork.

I hope this answers your question.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pedigree question
PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:25 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8089
I mentioned your post to a friend of mine who does one of the pedigree databases and he was kind enough to give me this information:

Rico: 7G ~15,70569%
Cassata: 8G ~14,13041%
Masai 7G ~12,73203%

Those are the percentage of wild blood for each of your kitties!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pedigree question
PostPosted: Sun Oct 29, 2017 9:43 pm 
Offline
Bengal Kitten

Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:38 pm
Posts: 15
Dear Sherry

Thanks a lot for youe answer and for the effort you took to find out of it. I really appreciate!

I'm amazed how much the part of wild blood still is. With Rico, who is badly socialized, it shows much stronger than with the others. With him, one has to work to gain his trust.

Sherry wrote:
It is never too late to register a cat.


But I guess, it has to be the breedet who register a cat? I don't know how she ist now. Her cattery was shut down by an animal rescue organisation. I havn't heard anything of her since. But anyway, is isn't so improtant to me to have him registered. What do I gain with that? What does he gain?

Are you interested in genetics as well or only in pedogree studies? I'm interested in genetics as well. Rico for example, was not bred to be a snow. That was by accident, a side effect. like that, many things can hide for generations and then appear. Rico has many characteristics from a siamese cat as well. But that I musst write next time - it's late for me... :-)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pedigree question
PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 5:38 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8089
I can barely keep up with F generations much less get into the genetics, but they are extremely hard to decipher and understand.

Registration of a cat is a personal thing. With TICA, the breeder will register the litter and then each owner will receive a blue slip where they can register their kitty with a pedigreed name and order a pedigree of the cat. We recently had TWO people on this forum who were moving to another country with their bengals and had no official documents on them and were desperate to hook up with the breeder to get the necessary documentation. They had never registered their cats, which would have given them the documentation they needed.

Okay, so you may never move with your cat. A registration carries down the pedigree to your cat. Since your kitties are fixed, the pedigree ends with them. Some people want an elaborate pedigreed name for their cat Like QueenAnne Empress Of Southern Cross Of Funky Dots. If you ever want to re-home or sell your kitty, a registered pedigree proves the cats are purebred bengals and can command the price.

Raiden's previous owner never registered him. He handed me the blue papers and I finally registered him when he was six years old. He is in two bengal databases with information on his inbreeding, the ALCs in his pedigree, etc. He will be there forever!

Since you have zero documentation from the breeder -- it may be difficult. All you can do is contact the registrar for wherever you are -- TICA (USA), GCCF (Great Britain), Sverak (Europe), etc. They have websites and you can contact them and ask questions if you are interested in registering or seeing if you can register them.

There are tens of thousands of unregistered bengals in this world -- it doesn't change the fact that they are bengals coming from pedigreed parents.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Pedigree question
PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 6:35 pm 
Offline
Bengal Kitten

Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:38 pm
Posts: 15
Thanks a lot for your answer, Sherry. I appreciate - and I like to discus with you, even if it takes some time for me to answer you.

As far as I know I would not need any other documents to move within europe than the documentation on the vacinations. But I have no plans on mooving around ayway :biggrin:

Sherry wrote:
If you ever want to re-home or sell your kitty, a registered pedigree proves the cats are purebred bengals and can command the price.


I don't think one can get a better pricce for a 10 year old pure bred than for any other cat. I bought Masai when he was 5 month old and already at that age he was half the price of a 12 to 16 week old kitty.


But back to the pedigree, ancestors and percentage of wild blood. After having had the information on the percentage of ALC blood for my kats for a while, a thought came to my mind. If I had breed Gina with Rico, I would have ated two cats with around 15 % ALC and their ofspring would have the same percentage of ALC.

Are my 3 cats just ordinary bengals or are they on the high (of low?) end of ALC blod? I assume, the bengal breed will level in at a certain perrcentage of ALC blod. What number of Generation bengals are bred today? My F8 is nearly 10 years old now. And what percentage of ALC blod do this young bengals have? Does your friend have information about that? And wheter the percentage of ALC blod has already leveld out or is very different in the different lines?


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 7 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by meemonkey