I'm interested to know opinions from other breeders on studs...For example What age do think a stud should be ideally retired? Would you buy a stud that has had a lot of 'traffic' ?? Would you be interested in a stud that has been with more than -say - 3 breeders/catteries etc...

I think we would only ever home a stud to an established breeder who has at least 2-3 years breeding experience and obviously he would have to live in the lap of luxury

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Best Wishes,
Maddy

it's a tricky one. not something i've had to make a decision on yet, but am certainly starting to get ideas for the future.

as a relatively novice breeder of only 3 years, i don't yet have my own stud boy but will hopefully have that changed by the end of this year i am open-minded about getting either an active-registered male kitten or an older proven boy, depending on whether or not i felt he still had a lot to offer the breed as it progresses, especially when working with my own girls.

i've expanded my breeding programme slowly, as i gain more experience & knowledge either first hand or through getting to know fellow breeders & their experiences. i now feel that breeding is something i am happy doing, & the time is right for me to expand to getting my own boy.

when choosing studs for my girls so far, age hasn't been a factor, more the quality of kittens that the boy produces, who is in the pedigree & whether he will compliment my girls & provide traits that i feel i need in my lines.

there are a few older & experienced lads out there who are still siring some beautiful kittens, but on the other hand, there are also some older boys who the breed has progressed from & the offspring have more to offer in their own right.

i currently have a mating in progress with an older boy who has had a lot of "traffic" ( ), as he has beautiful small ears & a short thick tail, two things which are important to me to improve my lines, besides other traits which i am aware he carries & am excited to be priveleged enough to use.
i feel ears & tails have been a problem of more recent years & for me personally, it is neccessary to dip back to an older boy to try & rectify this.

when it comes to producing my own male kittens & deciding who to sell them too, i think i would be pretty choosy. studs don't have the best time while they are working & the welfare & happiness of the boys would be my priority, as well as what they had to offer for the breed as a whole. i think it would be a decision based on the prospective owners, how they work with their cats, how much time & love they can give them & their intentions at the end of the day.

phew, sorry to rant guys, it's a topic i'm very interested in as it's something i'm about to undertake myself & it's a very delicate balance of right & wrong. i would love to hear other peoples' opinions.

I agree that there are some older and proven studs who still have a lot to offer breeding programs and it seems criminal to neuter them when they are helping the breed to progress still

Me and V did enquire to home an older and proven stud boy in the UK but with no luck It is something we would still consider in the future. If it wasn't for a lot of the experienced and older studs here and abroad then we certainly wouldn't have half of the stunning Bengals produced! I think Uproar is a prime example over here and he is producing some amazing kittens. (Hope Koko follows him!) Also, when you have seen the quality of the progeny that a proven stud has produced, of course it is a huge asset for your breeding program to home him

I think maybe when a stud isn't producing the quality of kittens he once did and he has been 'well worked' physically over the years, then maybe it would be time for him to put his paws up and and have a good rest!

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Best Wishes,
Maddy

Hi

Most studs end up in solitary confinement for a large part of their lives due to their spraying, and antisocial behaviour.

I think neutering them early and letting them "have a life" is the kindest thing.
I think it is criminal letting most studs go to more than one cattery, they should be neutered after their days at the first cattery are over. There is only one way and that is unfortunately down, for older breeders and I mean queens as well. People who want a cheap cat want them and they end up eventually in the personal ads like Sparky. A lot of breeders specify that their cats sold as studs are neutered before changing homes.
Most older studs I feel have outlived their usefulness in a program, the breed progresses and even in the short time I have been breeding, the cats are now completely different.

I don't mean proven "seriously good" boys like Uproar and the like, they obviously go from "good" catteries to "good" catteries but you would have to be able to trust someone a lot before selling any breeding cat on.

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Best Wishes,
Maddy

Some good responses here!

Also quite rightly highlighting the meaning of proven, regarding studs.....Just because a stud has been passed around doesn't mean he's proven as some would believe.

Proven for me means more than just being able to produce, it stands for a whole lot more!

I too hate the thought of studs being passed around but I suppose I have to agree that this needs to happens to offer a particular trait to other catteries out there.

I don't think you can put an age on retiring boys (within reason of course) provided they recieve enough human stimulation and play, as most small breeders can offer this in plentiful supply....I guess it depends on the individual situation at hand!

We imported our stud for a couple of reasons, mainly the contracts that were being imposed on all the u.k cats were a bit extreme for all the wrong reasons, and the quality that we'd been offered didn't stack up enough for us. There's also a trend of everyone buying off the same well known breeders (no disrespect intended) and thus all having the same lines at the same time, look around and you'll see the trends quite clearly year after year ocassionally changing to a different one and then back again, all the well known bloodlines are milked resulting in us all having very similar lines....not good in my opinion as the vigor needs to re-established in every line from time to time!


I think the undertaking of owning a stud carries a great responsibility that some people might not have taken into account before buying one, sure you can leave him outside to pace up and down his run all day long and then confine him to barracks overnight, but this won't do him any favors in the long run especially if you're considering showing.....If as a breeder you're only interested in the "supply and demand" of kittens then this won't effect you at all!

But for most breeders thankfully there's more to it than that of course.

Our stud is just over 4 years old now and even though we only started showing him with Tica just over year ago he managed to gain his Supreme status after 10 months in October 2007, bear in mind that the competition is very fierce and full of freshly imported young and youthful looking male studs.....what this goes to show is that good cats are always good cats regardless of age IF they're needs tendered for.

We've had judges actually double check Th'ups age with the ring clerk on two occasions now thinking it might be a mis-print in the catalogue!

Also type is a big thing in breeding and probably one of the hardest things to put back, so what would happen if we all went for flashy coats and retired all the older boys every year or two.....where would we get the type back from?

As said before "food for the soul" is the key to happiness for a stud cat, not just a full belly and a few girls to mate here and there!

You can import the most perfect and upto date bengal stud in the world and he'll still get out performed if he's not cared for 110%

I also agree with whats said above about the validity of what a stud will put into your lines, and when his job is sufficiently done then he should be retired and allowed to live a little.....Its also my opinion that if you find a cat that works well for you and your girls producing the right look your striving for in your kittens that you should stick with it a while, one thing I don't see the point in is moving on too quickly....too much can be lost too quickly this way I feel.

Lastly I have to add that everyone looks for different things in Studs, we all need different things out of our matings and we all want to try a dip of this and a dab of that.

Anyhoo we made a promise to Th'up when we collected him from Heathrow, his jetset lifestyle was going to change and he was staying with us for the rest of his days, the same promise we gave our ladies.

Th'up only goes out in his run during the day now, It's past 3am here now and he's asleep on my bed right beside Heidi, he has to be touching her whilst he sleeps bless him. I'm feeling a tired little monkey now so time to squeeze in alongside him, it's taken 2 years of gradual adjustments to get him where he is now so I personally know how much effect the extreme stud life has on a cat and how much hard work it takes to break the machine-like mindset of a previously heavily worked stud.....A stud cat needs a life too!

Wow, now that is a perfect response! all I can say is....DITTO to all of the above!

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Best Wishes,
Maddy

brilliant answers luke. i'm enjoying this thread, i like it when a good healthy discussion gets going with very valid points & things for us all to learn.

it's certainly gonna help me when finally deciding who my precious boy will be.

Thought I would put my views across on this subject

As you are aware I am completely new to the breeding world and wasn't sure when would be the right time to take the plunge and buy a stud. As Sarah & I are in it together we have each other to talk through these things & have decided that we would import a stud together. He is from a very well known breeder who we have had the pleasure to meet & we understand this is not a decision to be taken lightly. As novice breeders ourselves we feel it would be wrong to begin selling breeding quality to begin with as we would like to build in confidence & see what kind of people we are going to be dealing with I have researched the breed for 11 years in all aspects & believe that even as novices if you understand the task in hand with the pro's & cons then hopefully it should make life easier As with anything in life nothing is a certainty and each day is a learning curve even established breeders have to wrestle with their conscience at some time or another.
Sarah & I are very excited in what we will hopefully achieve & I feel as long as it's done for the better of the breed with integrity and love and we know to expect ups & downs as life tends to throw them at you anyway hopefully we will succeed.

well said charmain

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Heidi