It is currently Fri Dec 15, 2017 5:38 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:21 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 8:00 am
Posts: 707
Location: Ogden, UT
midge - When I bought Quasar, we called, and spoke with, several breeders. None of these persons had prices on their website. We ended up paying $500 for him not because of the price tag but because his breeder was very conscientious, offered a health guarantee, provided neuter & first 2 sets of vaccines, screened all breeding animals for HCM annually (and could prove it), and offered much in the way of advice and then, after purchase, support for a totally NOVICE Bengal cat owner. As time has gone on, I have realized that she was definitely the right choice of breeder.

In any event, I know from the costs associated with her business and the value of the cares my kitten had been given prior to purchase, that she is most certainly not making money. Anything she may have made on my boy was certainly taken up not only in the aforementioned costs peculiar to my boy but in the maintenance of her breeding stock, facilities, and vet bills/losses associated with difficult births etc.

I don't think any of the prices quoted you was exorbitant, especially if the breeders were doing everything they ought to provide a quality environment for toms, queens, and kittens.

I sure hope, also, that on top of the 500 pound price tag you are prepared to spend at least that much in the first year on cat expenses. I would hate to see the poor waif allowed to fail in your home and end up in a rescue kennel because you are not prepared or able to afford it's care.

Good luck with your new acquisition, if you are prepared for the challenge.

_________________
~ Kyenta


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 10:45 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK
Quote:
£800 and £750 were unreasonable for the kittens i was looking at

...and your experience of Bengal kittens is...
I detect a bit of arrogance here from someone who now appears to be a self proclaimed expert on the quality of Bengal kittens, yet seems to be looking for the cheapest one they can find to buy.

Market forces dictate the price of kittens, like they do everything else that is for sale.
The price of the kitten depends on the quality of the kitten, sex, size, shape, markings - how anyone can gauge that three kittens are exactly the same and that two are unreasonably priced without even seeing them in the flesh, is ridiculous
Price also depends on the pedigree of the kitten and the extras; health screening, neutering vaccinations etc.
Location and the number of similar breeders in the area impacts on price too.
In cat breeding there are also "celebrity" cat breeders, people who are well known in the cat fancy who are viewed as successful, respected cat breeders, or big personalities in the breed or people who are at the forefront of breed innovation - they usually have long waiting lists and can charge higher prices. Their prefixes are sought after, in the same way that a person may want a car built by Mercedes, as opposed to a car built by Lada. They can pick and choose who they sell kittens to, it is a seller's market.

BUT in cat breeding there is another dimension that makes the price of kittens variable and that is how the breeders themselves approach selling kittens.
Some are in breeding purely for the money, they can be either at the top end of the breed or at the bottom, profit drives their pricing structures and everything they do.
Some are in breeding purely to test their ability to "improve" the breed, they love the thrill of trying to manipulate genes. Breeding a show-stopping, stunning individual is their goal, selling kittens and profit may be low on their radar.
Some are pure hobby breeders, their aim is to get the best home for their kittens, they may accept lower prices in order to find a truly good home, but they are not willing to give kittens away either to someone just out for a bargain, most have good intuition for sussing out cheapskates.
Some can be a mix of all three approaches to breeding.

Most breeders view their kittens as living things, they are not washing machines and some want to reserve their rights as to who they sell their kitten to.
Price can become a tool to that end. If they think a person is not right for their kitten, it is the easiest thing in the world to up the price quoted to that individual, whereas if they think a person is a perfect home they can then lower the price.
Fixed pricing would not give them that flexibility.
Pricing kittens on a website like you would to sell a coat or a camera or a car, is just not how pedigree cat breeding works.

Just because YOU want a kitten for £500, it does not mean the entire cat fancy will dance to your tune.

_________________
Elaine


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:38 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
midge wrote:
lollo2304 wrote:
midge wrote:

After the disappointing experience with what i believe to be inflated prices i shall not phone anyone who doesn't list a price as IMO the only plausible reason there isn't a price is because they make it up as they go along.


Again, I will tell you that there is nothing to hide. They do not make it up as they go along.

If you were to email me and ask if I had any kittens available, if I screen and what for and how much the kittens are....? Then you will get a price and a lot of information to go with it.

I do not lose out by you or anyone else not contacting me because I have lots of people interested in the kittens anyhow. I could sell 2-3 times as many as I do. And my kittens are excellent! So it is you that loses out, not me!


Again, give me a reason why you don't list a price?


Because I don't need to. Anyone can ask and they will get the same reply...

I often have people waiting for a kitten before they are born and before I know the exact price. This year my kittens were all probably spoken for before they were two weeks old with extra people waiting in the wings in case people dropped out. People were informed at the time they contacted me what the price was likely to be but that it would change a little depending on the costs of neutering and vaccinations this year.

Plus, I get to wheedle out people who are far more interested in the price of a kitten than the health and wellbeing of it...Means I get the best homes for my kittens! :biggrin:

Kittens are living creatures and I will always want the best for them. I had someone message me saying that as the kitten they would have liked was reserved they would, as a compromise, take another kitten and the kitten with the kink in his tail for £750. A discount of £250 on the price... The fact that they used the word compromise and chose to indicate the kitten with the kinky tail was faulty like some damaged furniture.... Put me off them completely. I can be picky about who gets one of my kittens because I don't care if I get a certain price, only that they go to homes that will love them and care for them. Price, for me as a breeder, is the least important part of breeding.

I have a kitten from my last litter that is staying here for a while longer. She had a home lined up but the week before she was due to leave I had my vet check her eyes out because she was having some issues following toys. After referral to a specialist she has been diagnosed with cataracts, extremely rare in kittens. She will need surgery or she will go blind in both eyes. She is staying with me until surgery and then she may go to live with the original people who picked her but she may just stay with me. So far she has cost me £400. And the surgery is estimated at being £5000. I bought her into this world when I chose to breed so she is my responsibility. If I was in it for money then I would not have done any of this...

_________________
Lollo
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:44 am 
Offline
Bengal Kitten

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:36 pm
Posts: 18
To many assumptions being made here.
my experience is that i have spent a few months looking at various kittens gathering as much information as i can whilst also reading a lot of information on this forum and others alike.

-'Self proclaimed expert'
I've read back through my posts and i can't see where i have said this, perhaps you could point it out for me.

- 'Market forces dictate the price of kittens, like they do everything else that is for sale. The price of the kitten depends on the quality of the kitten, sex, size, shape, markings'
As i have said a few times now, the price of the kitten will depend on quality, but thanks for reiterating and agreeing with what i have said.

'Just because YOU want a kitten for £500, it does not mean the entire cat fancy will dance to your tune'
I am not telling anyone to dance to my tune, i am not telling anyone what price they should sell their kittens for, not quite sure how you have got to that conclusion, may i suggest you read back through everything i have said and if you still can't grasp what i am saying then read back through it again.

As you have rightly said 'its a sellers market' and because of that they will dictate the price as they please and so when you make an enquiry the seller will dictate how much they can charge, intact if you read back through my post's and yours your see you are largely agreeing (albeit using a different word structure) in most of what i have said.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 11:49 am 
Offline
Bengal Kitten

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:36 pm
Posts: 18
lollo2304 wrote:

Because I don't need to. Anyone can ask and they will get the same reply...

I often have people waiting for a kitten before they are born and before I know the exact price. This year my kittens were all probably spoken for before they were two weeks old with extra people waiting in the wings in case people dropped out. People were informed at the time they contacted me what the price was likely to be but that it would change a little depending on the costs of neutering and vaccinations this year.

Plus, I get to wheedle out people who are far more interested in the price of a kitten than the health and wellbeing of it...Means I get the best homes for my kittens! :biggrin:

Kittens are living creatures and I will always want the best for them. I had someone message me saying that as the kitten they would have liked was reserved they would, as a compromise, take another kitten and the kitten with the kink in his tail for £750. A discount of £250 on the price... The fact that they used the word compromise and chose to indicate the kitten with the kinky tail was faulty like some damaged furniture.... Put me off them completely. I can be picky about who gets one of my kittens because I don't care if I get a certain price, only that they go to homes that will love them and care for them. Price, for me as a breeder, is the least important part of breeding.

I have a kitten from my last litter that is staying here for a while longer. She had a home lined up but the week before she was due to leave I had my vet check her eyes out because she was having some issues following toys. After referral to a specialist she has been diagnosed with cataracts, extremely rare in kittens. She will need surgery or she will go blind in both eyes. She is staying with me until surgery and then she may go to live with the original people who picked her but she may just stay with me. So far she has cost me £400. And the surgery is estimated at being £5000. I bought her into this world when I chose to breed so she is my responsibility. If I was in it for money then I would not have done any of this...


Must be very expensive process if your selling kittens at £1000 each and not making any money.
I commend you on looking after the sick kitten, i would do the same to.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:28 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
midge wrote:
lollo2304 wrote:

Because I don't need to. Anyone can ask and they will get the same reply...

I often have people waiting for a kitten before they are born and before I know the exact price. This year my kittens were all probably spoken for before they were two weeks old with extra people waiting in the wings in case people dropped out. People were informed at the time they contacted me what the price was likely to be but that it would change a little depending on the costs of neutering and vaccinations this year.

Plus, I get to wheedle out people who are far more interested in the price of a kitten than the health and wellbeing of it...Means I get the best homes for my kittens! :biggrin:

Kittens are living creatures and I will always want the best for them. I had someone message me saying that as the kitten they would have liked was reserved they would, as a compromise, take another kitten and the kitten with the kink in his tail for £750. A discount of £250 on the price... The fact that they used the word compromise and chose to indicate the kitten with the kinky tail was faulty like some damaged furniture.... Put me off them completely. I can be picky about who gets one of my kittens because I don't care if I get a certain price, only that they go to homes that will love them and care for them. Price, for me as a breeder, is the least important part of breeding.

I have a kitten from my last litter that is staying here for a while longer. She had a home lined up but the week before she was due to leave I had my vet check her eyes out because she was having some issues following toys. After referral to a specialist she has been diagnosed with cataracts, extremely rare in kittens. She will need surgery or she will go blind in both eyes. She is staying with me until surgery and then she may go to live with the original people who picked her but she may just stay with me. So far she has cost me £400. And the surgery is estimated at being £5000. I bought her into this world when I chose to breed so she is my responsibility. If I was in it for money then I would not have done any of this...


Must be very expensive process if your selling kittens at £1000 each and not making any money.
I commend you on looking after the sick kitten, i would do the same to.


This year the kittens were £500. Apart from one that went to a home that had a kitten last year, they got a small discount.... (The people I quoted about above wanted two kittens for £750 as a compromise).

There's no way I would sell for £1000!

_________________
Lollo
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 12:55 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK
Quote:
I am currently looking for a bengal kitten, and i am avoiding people who can't be bothered to put a price on their kittens


You now know how the pedigree cat fancy operates, most reputable breeders will not disclose their prices publicly. I am not sure I actually know a Bengal breeder who posts prices on their website.
So do you stand by your original stance?

_________________
Elaine


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:41 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2011 3:08 am
Posts: 1723
Location: Melbourne, Australia
junglerose wrote:
Quote:
I am currently looking for a bengal kitten, and i am avoiding people who can't be bothered to put a price on their kittens


You now know how the pedigree cat fancy operates, most reputable breeders will not disclose their prices publicly. I am not sure I actually know a Bengal breeder who posts prices on their website.
So do you stand by your original stance?


Must be a different part of the world thing, all breeders here in Australia put their prices on their websites. I can't think of any that I know of who don't.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:04 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK
Fenstar wrote:
junglerose wrote:
Quote:
I am currently looking for a bengal kitten, and i am avoiding people who can't be bothered to put a price on their kittens


You now know how the pedigree cat fancy operates, most reputable breeders will not disclose their prices publicly. I am not sure I actually know a Bengal breeder who posts prices on their website.
So do you stand by your original stance?


Must be a different part of the world thing, all breeders here in Australia put their prices on their websites. I can't think of any that I know of who don't.


Must be. :)

_________________
Elaine


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:25 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:38 pm
Posts: 1836
What is HCM? I am having my cat tested for PK Def and PKD1 at UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory but I don't see HCM mentioned in the list of test options.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 6:29 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:00 am
Posts: 4145
Location: Portland Oregon, USA
Fenstar wrote:
junglerose wrote:
Quote:
I am currently looking for a bengal kitten, and i am avoiding people who can't be bothered to put a price on their kittens


You now know how the pedigree cat fancy operates, most reputable breeders will not disclose their prices publicly. I am not sure I actually know a Bengal breeder who posts prices on their website.
So do you stand by your original stance?


Must be a different part of the world thing, all breeders here in Australia put their prices on their websites. I can't think of any that I know of who don't.


Most of the ones that I've seen around here do as well. I can't imagine why they wouldn't. Not doing so to me, means they are not dealing in an open and straightforward manner (like they might look you up and down and see what sort of ring you are wearing or what type of car you pull up in before naming the price).

_________________
The little monsters 3
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:39 pm 
Offline
Bengal Kitten

Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2014 7:36 pm
Posts: 18
Yes i will stand by my original stance, i will not deal with anyone who doesn't put a price 'because i don't need to' is not a reason imo. As others have said there isn't a reason not to put a price unless the price is likely to be variable.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:47 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat May 19, 2012 8:00 am
Posts: 707
Location: Ogden, UT
HCM is a hereditary cardiac disease. Hypertrophic cardiac myopathy. It resembles human heart failure and may present at any time during a cat's life. Breeding stock should be tested annually to ensure strong disease-free blood lines.

The definitive test is an echocardiogram, not a blood test.

_________________
~ Kyenta


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 7:48 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 16, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 3809
Location: UK
CMYKjill wrote:
What is HCM? I am having my cat tested for PK Def and PKD1 at UC Davis Veterinary Genetics Laboratory but I don't see HCM mentioned in the list of test options.


HCM is hypertrophic cardiomyopathy, a genetic condition too common in Bengals. No DNA test is as yet available for HCM in Bengals
Diagnosis is via ultrasonic scan by a veterinary cardiologist.
Unfortunately HCM is a progressive disease, so scans need done before breeding and annually thereafter.
Most Bengal pedigrees have HCM positive Bengals somewhere in the pedigree and because it is an autosomal dominant condition, it is something of an issue for Bengal breeders.
Google "feline HCM"

_________________
Elaine


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 03, 2014 9:31 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Tue Sep 23, 2014 6:38 pm
Posts: 1836
Thanks for the information. I have my cats on insurance (Trupanion) and I am trying to decide how long to keep them on it. It certainly is expensive, but since I didn't know anything about my rescue kitties health background I thought it would be a good move for a while at least. I imagine an insurance company might consider HCM pre-existing though.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 87 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron
Powered by meemonkey