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 Post subject: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 4:34 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:44 pm
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Sherry, I forgot to send you a picture of Pearls pedigree papers, I hope you can read it OK, ignore the owners name as I was made out for the original lady that was going to have her.
I also copied Magic's part of it is missing as they didn't trace it back.


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Clare
Magic (brown spotted boy born 31 March 2012)
Pearl (seal Lynx Point girl born 1 October 2015)
Bristol, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:52 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Has Sherry traced back which ALC lines yours have? It's actually really interesting. Would be cool to see if any of us have cats that trace back to the same original foundation ALC.

http://kimburu.tripod.com/ALClist.htm I found this site that has photos of most of the foundation ALC cats

The only one I'm struggling to find a photo of is Tariq which is slightly disappointing as both my girls are from Tariq.

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- Sarah
Arya 24/04/16 - Seal Lynx Point Rosetted Bengal
Griffith 16/04/16 - Silver Seal Lynx Point Rosetted Bengal
Mina (in my avatar)- 1999-2016 - Seal Mink Spotted Bengal (Snow) - run free at rainbow bridge


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 10:15 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:44 pm
Posts: 679
This is the first time I've put the papers on here for her, hope she can read them OK.

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Clare
Magic (brown spotted boy born 31 March 2012)
Pearl (seal Lynx Point girl born 1 October 2015)
Bristol, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:23 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8150
I so appreciate the papers on Magic and Pearl. Magic was a breeze!!! He is an F10. Pearl is a problem! LOL. I've spent several days researching Aluren Full Moon and Aluren HotSpot in her pedigree. I even found a TICA pedigree but they are in the last generation. I attempted to contact Hampshire Bengals who have the offspring of the two but I don't think my message ever sent. Many of the breeders no longer breed but still have active websites. At any rate ... without those two kitties, Pearl is an F11.

I looked at her pedigree and thought "what are the odds" of having those two specific kitties that I spent the weekend looking for! Ha ha ha! It's not really funny because it can mess up a pedigree. New information comes online all the time and I may eventually find them. For the time being, they are going to have to go under the "unknowns."

I currently have 23,184 cats in my database and am just now finding the F11's. Since I only located 2,600 F10's, I'm guessing there are fewer F11's. The breeders are taking their F10's and breeding back with an F7 to get an F8 litter. There may be some F13's and F14's out there but I have yet to come across any. The stragglers I'm picking up are going back to F1's even.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:27 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Sarah, don't trust that website you found. They are showing Aca's Magic Of TexasStar as an F1 and he was an ALC. Same with Apollo Of Gayzette, Bonzai, Centerwall, etc. They started the whole bengal breed as ALC's. I don't know why they would put F1 or SBT beside their name.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 3:57 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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I noticed that after actually and found it strange, although it's the only site I've found so far with a large collection of photos of the foundation ALC'S.

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- Sarah
Arya 24/04/16 - Seal Lynx Point Rosetted Bengal
Griffith 16/04/16 - Silver Seal Lynx Point Rosetted Bengal
Mina (in my avatar)- 1999-2016 - Seal Mink Spotted Bengal (Snow) - run free at rainbow bridge


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 5:10 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Posts: 679
So my 2 are not very closely related to the Asian leopard cat, is this a good or bad thing, I don't really know too much about this F generation thing.

I only know like an F1 is 1 generation away and so on, it's very interesting, I bet you find out quite a lot.

I also still have the pedigree of my bengal before Magic.

I'm surprised you could do Magic's as some of it is missing.

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Clare
Magic (brown spotted boy born 31 March 2012)
Pearl (seal Lynx Point girl born 1 October 2015)
Bristol, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:12 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8150
I will go and find the ALCs that Magic and Pearl are closely related to! Unfortunately, there are a LOT of missing bengals and when I discover an F7 with a missing unknown parent, that offspring becomes an F8 even though the other parent could be an F6, making it an F7. It can be confusing to some people and I have found a few of the unknowns that I couldn't locate before. So, basically, I skipped over the Aluren kitties in Pearl's pedigree.

Magic goes back to Art Deco of Lionsmountain (ALC).

Pearl -- I went back over her pedigree and discovered the Captain Jack Sparrow there is Korshki (do you know how many cats have been named Jack Sparrow???). Anyway ... that drops her to an F10, so Magic and Pearl are both F10's.

In Pearl's pedigree, she eventually also goes back to Junglebook Kenjara (same as Magic), who is an F4. Her ALC is also Art Deco Of Lionsmountain.

Here is a picture of him:


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:13 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Sarah, here is a better website for the ALC's: http://www.junglebookbengals.com/alc.html


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 2:22 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Thanks for all the information Sherry, it's really fascinating.

What made you decide to do all this in the first place?

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Clare
Magic (brown spotted boy born 31 March 2012)
Pearl (seal Lynx Point girl born 1 October 2015)
Bristol, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:25 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8150
If you can find the papers on your previous bengal, I'd love to add another kitty to the database. Know that many of the 23,366 cats in there so far have long departed this earth.

I became fascinated in the F-generations and when I got Raiden, I wanted to know his F-generation and his previous owner did not know. I found the BengalPedigree.com database and started from there. I got a 5-generation pedigree when I registered Raiden and saw all the different cats and discovered his grandfather was Gogees Warpaint, a Supreme Grand Champion show cat -- the #1 cat in Japan in 2000 and the #6 cat in the world the same year. That started me backwards on my trek to the ALC. Little did I realize that a five generation pedigree gives you 62 cats. Going back to all the ALCs gives you thousands of cats. It took me three months to put it all on a spreadsheet, but discovered he is an F9.

I've done complete pedigrees for a few people -- and while I can recall some of the cats by heart, no way can I remember thousands of cats, so I was starting all over again and it would take me three weeks of nonstop checking to get to the ALC's. (Note, bengals usually have several different ALCs in their complete pedigree.) I figured one day I would just start a database so it would not be so time consuming. I started this project in February and won't finish it until probably December. It is so informative and I get to see all these gorgeous kitties.


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 2:53 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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It's a great hobby to have, here are the papers from my previous boy Frosty, hope the writing is not too small.


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Clare
Magic (brown spotted boy born 31 March 2012)
Pearl (seal Lynx Point girl born 1 October 2015)
Bristol, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 7:40 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Looks like your Frosty was related to two of mine Mina's dad was Indykatz White Wizard and the same line is in Arya's pedigree.

I do think the UK gene pool was a lot smaller back then though than it is now.

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- Sarah
Arya 24/04/16 - Seal Lynx Point Rosetted Bengal
Griffith 16/04/16 - Silver Seal Lynx Point Rosetted Bengal
Mina (in my avatar)- 1999-2016 - Seal Mink Spotted Bengal (Snow) - run free at rainbow bridge


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:58 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sat Oct 31, 2015 9:44 pm
Posts: 679
It's a small world isn't it, I'm sure Sherry will tell me when she's looked at it.

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Clare
Magic (brown spotted boy born 31 March 2012)
Pearl (seal Lynx Point girl born 1 October 2015)
Bristol, UK


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 Post subject: Re: Pedigree papers
PostPosted: Sat Sep 03, 2016 4:25 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu May 23, 2013 2:21 pm
Posts: 8150
Jayuzuri Frosty was an F5. His father (Indykatz Jayuzuri Keedo) was an F4. You can see the ALC in the pedigree. Baghera-Sergura Khan of Kent in the last generation, sire of Millwood Miss Tique. There is a tremendous amount of inbreeding with the bengal. Breeders mate the son back to the mother many times. You will note Adinnsh Pluto (they put the incorrect spelling) is on the pedigree twice. Frosty's mom was an F8. Now you can understand how you go with the lower F generation. Father F4, mother F8, Frosty is an F5.

Hope that is helpful to you. I wish I had time to get into the bengal genetics as I'm sure that is fascinating as well.


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