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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:50 am 
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Location: Ottawa, Canada
lollo2304 wrote:
Yet you chose to book the train option before asking advice here.


Is that so ? Funny, I don't remember it that way at all. I thought it was obvious that I was taking the train already ?

lollo2304 wrote:
The OP claimed that you cannot carry pets as hand luggage on planes in Canada but Air Canada allows it as i posted a link. This was not commented on by the OP


I also mentioned that Air Canada does NOT fly out of Kitchener to Ottawa, in fact I don't think any airline will.

lollo2304 wrote:
You are also buying 'sight unseen' all be it for photographs. This is a risk that many people take, nothing that wrong with it (although i would not do it as, after hearing and seeing horror stories, i would want to check things out for myself). You don't really know how well socialised your kitten is. Unfortunately, some breeders do not put in the required time and effort to socialise the kittens they breed, so you are starting off at a disadvantage from the beginning.


I'm going to ask my mom to go and check out the breeders home.

lollo2304 wrote:
You, despite spending a few hours with your kitten before the train journey, will still be a stranger to her. She may be scared of everything including you. She made be scared of everything and is happy that a stranger gives her some attention. I doubt for 1 second that she will not be scared - she will be scared for the whole journey (all 19+hours of it). That breaks my heart - honestly.


She may not either, you are assuming she will be.

lollo2304 wrote:
I am sorry if this offends. I don't care so much about your feelings, i care about the cats/kittens. I feel you could have done things far better. Your first post on this thread suggested that someone had advised you to try the train option but i noticed that nobody on here had said that to you. We are all experienced cat owners as well as experienced bengal owners. There are owners and breeders here. Yet you chose to book the train option before asking advice here. The only person that has posted in your support is another person who has a similar problem (but seems to have put a lot more thought into it than you)... oh and your friend that joined in order to support you (or yourself under a different name :wink: ).


I don't believe for a moment you are "Sorry", but either way I don't really care what you think. The ticket has been bought, and I have already spent hours planing everything out. You can keep arguing with me, or give me suggestions on the how the make the trip less stressful. Which is something I've asked more then once, and each time I'm ignored. She will be fine, it's not the end of the world so stop acting like the cat is in a bubble, and overplaying the situation. Also, I didn't make a second account on here. Seeing as the Admin as already replied, I'm sure if this was the case I would been banned by now. They can easily tell if we come from the same IP address.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:55 am 
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Some things that may help is making sure you have a blanket that with the breeders house scent on in, if your mom is going to look, get her to bring the blanket so it can be in with the litter, if the breeder will allow. A familiar scent may be calming. You can check out something like feliway spray which may help a bit too. Good luck on your voyage!

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:06 am 
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Nicheven wrote:
Some things that may help is making sure you have a blanket that with the breeders house scent on in, if your mom is going to look, get her to bring the blanket so it can be in with the litter, if the breeder will allow. A familiar scent may be calming. You can check out something like feliway spray which may help a bit too. Good luck on your voyage!


The pet store suggested this might work: http://www.petnaturals.com/vitamins_sup ... s-cats.php

My mom is going to look but it's going to be over a month, from when she see's the kitty and I visit her. However, if I send a blanket up ahead of time then my scent might be more familiar to her, and when I go to visit her. I wont be as strange of a smell.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:09 am 
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yeah it may help a bit, the bigger thing is her having something that smells like her mom and brothers/sisters to remind her of home and a comfortable place. I've heard a lot of people saying they did this, even when taking them on short trips home, to help them settle a bit better once they get home. (no first hand experience, sorry...still waiting on my kittens, they come home march 8th!)

also not sure on those treats if they work or not, no experience with them, our dogs had a short trip home so we never used anything on them.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:13 am 
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I gave advice already regarding how to help make the situation better.

lollo2304 wrote:
Gnexus01 wrote:
I will even bring something like a blanket that has my scent on it and put it in cat carrier with her. This might help her calm down abit.It's not like I'm putting the cat underneath a train or anything. It's a regular car with no windows, and gutted of the seats basically. So it's not luggage compartment, it's an entire train car just for luggage. People use them all the time, I don't see why it's a big issue.


It would be very scary for the kitten to be in a carrier, in that situation and have a blanket with a strangers scent on. It would be far better to have a blanket from the breeder that has some comfort to her. If necessary buy a blanket and have it shipped to the breeder so they can make sure it smells right. I send my kittens home with a blanket.

I am not a fan of flying kittens int he hold although i know its necessary in other parts of the world and we are fortunate that the UK is small. I sold a kitten last year to Holland and the new owner was either going to drive or fly so long as Yuma (kitten) could fly in the cabin. So little Yuma was in a small holdall meant for small dogs and sat on her new owners lap for the flight.

Feliway spray may help. I think it would do no harm.

I think it would be nicer if it was a luggage compartment with secure areas for luggage. That picture looks like a small cat carrier could move quite a bit during the trip. Look into ways that you can secure the carrier. And do ask if you can have her, in the carrier on your lap as this would be far nicer.

I can see why you are doing it, i just don't like the idea for my own cats/kittens. I would do anything to make sure they are happy and comfortable. Sorry.


Gnexus01 wrote:
lollo2304 wrote:
Yet you chose to book the train option before asking advice here.


Is that so ? Funny, I don't remember it that way at all. I thought it was obvious that I was taking the train already ?


No, it wasn't obvious you already booked the train. If you read the first two posts you made on this thread you are just discussing how you could save money by doing it.

Gnexus01 wrote:
lollo2304 wrote:
The OP claimed that you cannot carry pets as hand luggage on planes in Canada but Air Canada allows it as i posted a link. This was not commented on by the OP

I also mentioned that Air Canada does NOT fly out of Kitchener to Ottawa, in fact I don't think any airline will.


Yes but there are ways you could do train with the cat on your lap, flight with the cat on your lap then home. Probably a lot shorter as well.

Gnexus01 wrote:
lollo2304 wrote:
You, despite spending a few hours with your kitten before the train journey, will still be a stranger to her. She may be scared of everything including you. She made be scared of everything and is happy that a stranger gives her some attention. I doubt for 1 second that she will not be scared - she will be scared for the whole journey (all 19+hours of it). That breaks my heart - honestly.


She may not either, you are assuming she will be.

I have a LOT of experience raising kittens. I can assure you she WILL be scared. There is no kitten in the world that will find that a happy and comfortable journey. They will be scared.



I asked what provisions you have made for toileting and food/water during the journey. But there is no reply to that. This is very important because young kittens need to be fed and watered often. Dehydration can be very serious. They also pee and poop a lot.


I am somewhat perplexed that you do not seem to think a young kitten will not find this frightening. I also do not know how you can 'know' that she will be fine. I suspect she will not be fine on the journey and it will take you a lot more trouble to settle her into your home that it would do normally. I do hope that she doesn't have any long term problems.


It hindsight, i would have got your mom to check the breeder out before putting a deposit down.

I would also sincerely recommned picking her up a day or so earlier so that she can get more used to you before the nightmare journey. AT least then you will not be a stranger to her.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:14 am 
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Nicheven wrote:
Some things that may help is making sure you have a blanket that with the breeders house scent on in, if your mom is going to look, get her to bring the blanket so it can be in with the litter, if the breeder will allow. A familiar scent may be calming. You can check out something like feliway spray which may help a bit too. Good luck on your voyage!


I said all that on page 1

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:18 am 
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Nicheven wrote:
yeah it may help a bit, the bigger thing is her having something that smells like her mom and brothers/sisters to remind her of home and a comfortable place. I've heard a lot of people saying they did this, even when taking them on short trips home, to help them settle a bit better once they get home. (no first hand experience, sorry...still waiting on my kittens, they come home march 8th!)

also not sure on those treats if they work or not, no experience with them, our dogs had a short trip home so we never used anything on them.


It works, i did advise this in the 1st page. It is far more important that she feels comfortable with familiar smells than being given something new on the day.

I would not give her anything edible that she is not used to as it may give her runny poo during the journey. Kittens have delicate stomachs so i would stick with food she is used to. feliway sprays, as i said earlier, can help.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:19 am 
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Location: Southern California
lollo2304 wrote:
Nicheven wrote:
Some things that may help is making sure you have a blanket that with the breeders house scent on in, if your mom is going to look, get her to bring the blanket so it can be in with the litter, if the breeder will allow. A familiar scent may be calming. You can check out something like feliway spray which may help a bit too. Good luck on your voyage!


I said all that on page 1


I know, and it was great advice :D

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:23 am 
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lollo2304 wrote:
"Yes but there are ways you could do train with the cat on your lap, flight with the cat on your lap then home. Probably a lot shorter as well.


oh ? Do explain, because I don't how I could do this.

lollo2304 wrote:
I asked what provisions you have made for toileting and food/water during the journey. But there is no reply to that. This is very important because young kittens need to be fed and watered often. Dehydration can be very serious. They also pee and poop a lot.


I'm looking into getting a little food and water tray that can attach itself to the front cage of the carrier. As for poop and pee, I'm not sure ? Put some at the far back of the carrier ?


lollo2304 wrote:
I would also sincerely recommend picking her up a day or so earlier so that she can get more used to you before the nightmare journey. AT least then you will not be a stranger to her.


That's something I can look into, My ticket is dated for the Friday so that option is open.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:29 am 
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lollo2304 wrote:
The only person that has posted in your support is another person who has a similar problem (but seems to have put a lot more thought into it than you)... oh and your friend that joined in order to support you (or yourself under a different name :wink: ).

I am most definitely not Gnexus. For one I am female and another I live in the United States of America. Although you cannot see me and you do not have to believe me I am a separate person from Gnexus.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:49 am 
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Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
The idea of going down a day early is great! If she has a favorite toy (I know some breeders send the favorite with the kitty) then that could go in the carrier also, but if not and you take a few with you and are there a day early she might have time to really favor one in particular.

I know all mine love furry fabric like dressing gowns, if you could get a small bit of it from somewhere and put that it in it might help, mine just knead it like crazy and purrrr purrr purrr when they are on it. If your mother has an old one maybe you could cut a square of it but if not you should be able to get some at a fabric store.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 11:00 am 
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to the OP:
can you find/design the sound proof large carrier , so its less noisy for her and not too small ?

There is Feliway spray that may help. Im not sure whether its ok for such a youing age though.

Toys in the carrier - I am afraid she will be so scared there that she wont be thinking of playing or eating.

I also fear for this kitten and it breaks my heart. I dont understand how people can think of saving money on the welfare of a kitten. unfortunately it does happen, and poor kittens suffer ..

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:55 pm 
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The only way that I can think of to try to minimise stress levels for this poor kitten is sedation for the 7 hours she will be alone in the luggage car if that would be possible.

Personally I don't agree with transporting animals as luggage in either a plane hold or a trains luggage carriage. The only reason I can see for taking any pet on a plane is if there is an ocean in the way and then I would only do so if the animal was allowed in the cabin with me/ whoever was traveling with said animal, otherwise finding a way of traveling via car would be the only method I would consider. One member on this forum did in fact deliberately drive across a large area of the US to minimise the stress for their Bengals! Cost is secondary to the animals welfare and there is no way I would ever sell a kitten to anyone who would allow him/her to be put in a luggage car or plane hold alone for any length of time let alone 7 hours. That level of stress could potentially trigger you kitten into developing FIP which is fatal :cry:

You keep saying that because you have bought your train ticket you will just do this anyway and tough luck for the kitten if it is terrified but I see no reason why you have to take the kitten, you were already going to visit your mother so it's not like this trip was specifically to collect your kitten. Why can't you just arrange something else for the kitten and develop a more thought out, kitten friendly plan that will actually be better for the kitten not your wallet? I do tend to agree with others that your attitude of 'no I won't spend more to make my new kitten as comfortable and stress free as possible' to be worrying, it gives the impression that you would also put money before your kittens welfare in other areas such as veterinary treatment.

Your friends may see nothing wrong with your idea, many people may think it's fine but the people on this forum are passionate about cats (and other animals) and unlike a lot of people they put their animals on an equal setting to themselves and care and respect their pets as living creatures not possessions. Very few members will condone allowing a tiny kitten to suffer for the sake of saving money, and no we are not all millionaires, we just do everything in our power to ensure that we can financially support our pets adequately even if this means sacrifices in other areas of our lives.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 1:32 pm 
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Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
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Toys in the carrier - I am afraid she will be so scared there that she wont be thinking of playing or eating.


I wasn't thinking of her playing with it, just something thats she's fond of in there for comfort.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:04 pm 
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Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada
The fact that there are no kittens closer to our area has a lot to do with this. When I was looking I found two breeders that were closer, neither of them were screening for HCM, and although they were closer there would still have been hours of travel involved.

Although it's not as much of an issue for those with cars the travel is still an issue for many people here. It seems breeders prefer to live in areas out of the cities (with good reason).

Ontario is Canada's second largest province, covering more than one million square kilometres (415,000 square miles) - an area larger than France and Spain combined.


Its not the cost, it's the logistics of it. Asking a friend to drive? That'd pretty well have to be a friend with benifits lol. Most people have jobs, families of their own and other responsibilities and although they might love to help asking them to take us on an overnight trip is a bit much.

I think that shipping of kittens is much more common over here in Canada than it is in England due to the sheer size difference of our Countries. Almost every breeders website states that they ship kittens.

I realize that no one is going to change their opinion and I wish for myself that I could just get someone to drive me down, stay in a hotel overnight (and that would be just another stress I imagine) and then drive back but I can't. I do worry about the plane trip but it's being done all the time and I doubt that all the breeders would be shipping if it was that bad for the kittens. And these are good breeders with all the right stuff in the contracts but they understand the difficulties in getting to them.


We are only talking about a trip of 278 miles for the kitten. There's a good possibility it'll sleep once its in the train.


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