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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 2:21 pm 
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I'm not a fan of Iams, especially after finding out certain things but a friend of mine of FB posted this;

http://www.iamscruelty.com/iams-feat-researchers.asp

Makes me grrrrrrrrrrr

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 4:26 pm 
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What the HELL? Excuse my language but what makes people think they can do things like that??? Is this not considered animal cruelty and why are they not held to the same standards as the ' general public" if someone that wasnt a "researcher" did anything even remotely similar to these things they would go to jail and face several financial penalties as well!!! Oh dear my blood pressure is BOILING :evil: :evil: :evil:

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PostPosted: Wed Dec 19, 2012 5:08 pm 
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If you have a weak constitution I suggest you avoid ever picking up a veterinary or other life sciences journal.

But please remember that the biological knowledge we have, the treatments that your pet will undergo at the vet, and that you will undergo in a hospital, were not pulled out of a hat.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 12:24 am 
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This is true!!! So true!! I have worked in the medical field since I was 16 years old and I believe that modern science and medicine wouldn't be where it is today if it was not for "experiments". However there is an etical way to go about making advances and gaining knowledge about any given subject. I don't think the diet of a cat/dog is included in what I consider a medical experiment that is necessary. Both cats and dogs are born to eat what they naturally eat and that is what their diets should be based off o.fQuote:In one of the most gruesome experiments imaginable, he killed six healthy 6-month-old Great Dane puppies and then “minced, lyophilized, fat extracted with light petrol, dried and ground” the puppies in order to conduct a “total body analysis.” What exactly would be the purpose of this and how could it be beneficial to blast an animal with radation strong enough to cause severe damage to the spinal cord!! I don't get it and I suppose I never will!!! I can understand to a certain extent that "life saving" experiments need to be done , like discovering how to succesfully perform a heart transplant or an operation to remove a brain tumor or something along the lines of that, but what does an animals diet have to do with all of this. The only reason they are doing these experiments is trying to find a cheap way to make a commercial pet food that they can put minimal money into while charging a butt load of money for it and "claiming" its good for your pet. Its a huge rip off to begin with and then they have to torture animals to do it! Its PURE BS!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 2:09 am 
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Paiviaso wrote:
If you have a weak constitution I suggest you avoid ever picking up a veterinary or other life sciences journal.

But please remember that the biological knowledge we have, the treatments that your pet will undergo at the vet, and that you will undergo in a hospital, were not pulled out of a hat.


Lets not lose sight of the big picture here though... Iams is not a company that is seeking to better the lives of our pets. They objectively have some of the worst food one can buy nutritionally speaking. Their goal is to exceed their profit projection for each quarter, and do so primarily but cutting costs and quality.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:00 am 
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Brian I believe you're very right, but the material this website attacks is not purely Iams' work. All the papers listed are co-authored by someone from a reputable university (University of Georgia, Colorado State University, Washington State University) and most (though not all) have been published in reputable science journals (American Journal of Veterinary Research, Journal of Animal Science, Journal of Nutrition, Veterinary Radiology and Ultrasound). Hopefully this indicates their research is sound, and can be of benefit to the whole biomedical community. The time to get mad is when experiments are done, claims are made, and no research is published...!

As a side, I was quite annoyed at the last study being included on the list, as it had nothing to do with Iams - the website was clearly just digging through Iams' researcher's past publications and tried to find the most "gruesome" one they could :roll:


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:16 am 
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bkilgore, I looked up the Great Dane paper for you in case you wanted to see what their explanation was for the research.

The first investigations on body composition of puppies go back as far as 1889, but most studies have been random samples of a few animals kept under unknown conditions. For factorial calculation of requirement figures, data on body composition during growth are essential. In addition, reliable knowledge concerning body composition is extremely helpful when establishing new methods such as dual energy X-ray absorptiometry (DXA) for puppies. For obvious reasons, total body analysis of puppies and young dogs should not be repeated more often than strictly necessary. Therefore in our study we compared some new data on Great Danes with data from the contemporary literature (Crabo et al. 1970, Gold 1960, Höfling 1989, Kienzle et al. 1985, Meyer et al. 1985, Sheng and Huggins 1971, Stadtfeld 1978, Thomee 1980) and earlier data (Bunge 1889, Dippelt 1910, Dröge 1913, Eckert 1913, Fontes and Thivolle 1925, Gerhartz 1908, Lintzel and Radeff 1931, Moulton 1923, Orgler 1910, Radeff 1930, Thomas 1911, Toverud and Toverud 1931). We focused our attention on the effect of age on body composition, the possible systematic effects of breed size and the possible differences between earlier data and contemporary findings.

And the puppy spinal cord paper:

Intensity modulated radiation therapy (IMRT) theoretically allows detailed tailoring of the dose distribution in tissue. The goal of this study was to determine if a method of dynamic IMRT could be used to deliver a high dose of radiation to a concave shaped target around the cervical spinal cord. Fifteen young adult dogs from our laboratory population were randomly divided into two groups. A radiation dose of 84 Gy in 4 Gy fractions was delivered with a conventional 4 field technique for Group A dogs, and with dynamic IMRT for Group B dogs to a “C-shaped” target close to the cervical spinal cord. Neurologic status, magnetic resonance imaging results and histopathologic changes were compared among dogs in the two groups. Group A dogs developed myelomalacia with a latency period of 65 ± 9 days. Group B dogs did not have any histologic changes to the cervical spinal cord when euthanasia was performed 12 months after irradiation. The results demonstrate that this IMRT technique can be safely and precisely delivered to a patient in a clinical situation.

I'm not trying to change your mind, but I thought you might like to know what the purpose was.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 3:27 pm 
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Ok I can somewhat understand the IMRT because it can save lives of not only "pets" but humans as well. However, I still do not agree with animal testing. As far as the Danes I don't understand this in any way, shape, or form. Its not only disturbing but cruel and inhumane IMO. I understand 100% the need for studies and experimental medical procedures and in a way I am glad they are out there If they were not the human and animal life expectancy wouldn't have increased the way it has over the decades . I do not however see how any of these things listed contribute to IAMS or any commercial pet food company. Inducing renal failure and removing kidneys, and things alike are not necessary for a food company to study!!! Like stated above they are only trying to find cheap ways of creating the food and conducting these horrible studies to determine the effects of the crap they are putting in the food. I would also assume they would not even conduct these studies on their "specimens" if it were not for reputation and mostly law suits!! Its just really disturbing to say the least!!!

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Paiviaso wrote:
Brian I believe you're very right, but the material this website attacks is not purely Iams' work. All the papers listed are co-authored by someone from a reputable university (University of Georgia, Colorado State University, Washington State University) and most (though not all) have been published in reputable science journals (American Journal of Veterinary Research, Journal of Animal Science, Journal of Nutrition, Veterinary Radiology and Ultrasound). Hopefully this indicates their research is sound, and can be of benefit to the whole biomedical community. The time to get mad is when experiments are done, claims are made, and no research is published...!

As a side, I was quite annoyed at the last study being included on the list, as it had nothing to do with Iams - the website was clearly just digging through Iams' researcher's past publications and tried to find the most "gruesome" one they could :roll:


Colorado State University student here! We have a great vet program -- it's pretty much what we're known for out of state. People deliberately attend because of that and there are some procedures that only we are conducting for miles. When I was a younger girl and had a very sick puppy (research your breeders, people), CSU wanted to study her for research purposes, which of course I said no to, but their intentions were to figure out exactly what was wrong and fix it for me and everyone elses' sick dogs. The vet people over there are some pretty good people, but, they do need to do research which isn't always pretty.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:33 am 
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I don't like experiments on animals but sometiimes the medication that you take to help you surive has to be tested somehow.

How about we take all those covicted murderers on death row or in jail for life and do medical experiments on them. If they are going to be put to death why not put them to use?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:51 am 
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NikkiT wrote:
I don't like experiments on animals but sometiimes the medication that you take to help you surive has to be tested somehow.

How about we take all those covicted murderers on death row or in jail for life and do medical experiments on them. If they are going to be put to death why not put them to use?

Too much variability in sample size -- and a big benefit of testing on animals is you can see the effects across generations.


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