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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:09 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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I went to the Wyvern Cat Show today (with my little Pippa, 14 week old Tonk) and i totally fell in love with an Oriental Havana Kitten who was roughly the same age as my Pippa (1 week older). He was soooooooo cute. Take a look at this website:
http://www.burnthwaitessiamese.co.uk/or ... ud-cat.php

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:12 pm 
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Good grief look at those ears :shock: ....very cute!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 9:49 pm 
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He was just so cute Claire. I'm not normally a big fan but he just looked adorable. Andy said he looked like a wingnut!!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:36 pm 
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Really cute!

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:28 am 
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adorable but I am put off by the newer siamese look, just doesn't look right to me.

All i keep thinking is batttttttttttttttmmmmmmmmannnnnnnnnnnnnnn

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:49 am 
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GORGEOUS!! That's exactly the look I love.

So beautiful. I'm going to have a look around their website some more :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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exoticcatlover wrote:
GORGEOUS!! That's exactly the look I love.

So beautiful. I'm going to have a look around their website some more :lol:


Are you in fact being serious there?
Is there not some part of you that sees that that is a ludicrous look for a cat?

Breeders select for extremes, it is a well known fact and I easily can see how breeders can get caught up in that delusion and practice the mantra "the more extreme the better". It is promoted by breed clubs and showing organisations throughout the country. When and where will this particular fad stop? When the cat is falling over its ears when walking?? :roll:
It is my assertion that it is up to the public to point out these idiotic traits for what they are, and rein in breeders to wake up to their collective hallucinations.
Dog breeding went over the top, it has bred unhealthy mutant dogs with traits that bear no relation to healthy function. Breeders clubs closed their eyes to the issues, they ended up so focussed on the extreme traits that they forgot about the dog.

I see those ears and head shape as a similar problem for cats, cat breeders should not be allowed to make the same mistakes as dog breeders and it is up to the buying public to pull them up on it.
They should not enter into the deluded breeder world, as all it does is foster silly breeding which ends up as heart ache for the cat and the poor pet owner who often has to pick up the pieces of all that breeding for "extremes"

How do you think the cat developed such extreme ears and head shape?
It was through inbreeding time and time again, using the same extreme cats over and over to "set the look".
Is that the kind of cat you wish to purchase?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:59 pm 
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junglerose wrote:
exoticcatlover wrote:
GORGEOUS!! That's exactly the look I love.

So beautiful. I'm going to have a look around their website some more :lol:


Are you in fact being serious there?
Is there not some part of you that sees that that is a ludicrous look for a cat?


I am serious and I do not think it looks ludicrous. However that's my opinion, you are entitled to yours.

junglerose wrote:
Dog breeding went over the top, it has bred unhealthy mutant dogs with traits that bear no relation to healthy function. Breeders clubs closed their eyes to the issues, they ended up so focussed on the extreme traits that they forgot about the dog.



I think comparing a modern Siamese to a mutant dog is a little severe and extreme. I think that statement is a little over the top.

junglerose wrote:

How do you think the cat developed such extreme ears and head shape?
It was through inbreeding time and time again, using the same extreme cats over and over to "set the look".
Is that the kind of cat you wish to purchase?


The Sphynx breed and many others were developed through inbreeding. Are you against those as well?
I can understand your view however I still want a Siamese and a Tonkenese. And I will purchase them in the future.

I also do not want to start a debate. I just want an easy life. I think the modern Siamese is lovely. I love Brian's Neyturi.

I think some people's children's are vile and very funny looking. But I do hold my tongue and resist the urge in saying to the parents "blimey, you two should not have been allowed to procreate, what on earth were you thinking. Are you sure your not related?" :lol:


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:42 pm 
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junglerose wrote:
How do you think the cat developed such extreme ears and head shape?
It was through inbreeding time and time again, using the same extreme cats over and over to "set the look".
Is that the kind of cat you wish to purchase?


Oh please, knock it off, you've taken this WAY too far. The whole oriental/siamese inbreeding thing is very very old news, and was cleaned up long ago. It amounts to an old prejudice. I'm sure that to the extent that there is inbreeding still, the same can be true of the bengal breed, only in the bengal breed the fixation is on having the right amount, and shape, and pattern, and color of spotting, and a cats value is determined by how nice it's spots look :roll:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:11 pm 
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brianj12 wrote:
junglerose wrote:
How do you think the cat developed such extreme ears and head shape?
It was through inbreeding time and time again, using the same extreme cats over and over to "set the look".
Is that the kind of cat you wish to purchase?


Oh please, knock it off, you've taken this WAY too far. The whole oriental/siamese inbreeding thing is very very old news, and was cleaned up long ago. It amounts to an old prejudice. I'm sure that to the extent that there is inbreeding still, the same can be true of the bengal breed, only in the bengal breed the fixation is on having the right amount, and shape, and pattern, and color of spotting, and a cats value is determined by how nice it's spots look :roll:


Inbreeding is not old news, I am afraid it is very much alive and well today in cat breeding. How exactly has it been cleaned up?
Quote:
We are concerned, too, about Siamese and Oriental cats. A reasonable
proportion of Siamese-style cats have congenital wiring faults in their visual neural
pathways causing absent stereopsis with pendular nystagmus. This has been known
since 1971 when it was characterised by Nobel laureates Hubel and Wiesel -– but have we
done anything about it? Do we need a quantitative volumetric MRI study to show
that breeding for the extreme wedge-shapedhead conformation has resulted in
microencephaly?Brachycephalia – a bastardisation of what makes cats special


Bengal breeding is very similar, that is true, the pursuit of rosetting and other Bengal traits has led to many genetic faults and problems surfacing in the breed, it is not a particularly healthy breed IME.
I do worry about the pursuit of extreme head shape in the Bengal breed too.

It is however a fallacy to state that because it happens in one breed, it can be tolerated in others. It is bad in all breeds surely?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:22 pm 
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Quote:
I think comparing a modern Siamese to a mutant dog is a little severe and extreme. I think that statement is a little over the top.


Really, so you see no similarity as regards the excessive head shape modifications that have come about in dogs and that that has evolved in the Siamese Breed. The entirely man-made moulding of shape by genetic selection that puts looks before function is that not the same as seen in dogs?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ropemonkey09/5218407277/

Quote:
The Sphynx breed and many others were developed through inbreeding. Are you against those as well?


I am against any modifications that make for unhealthy cats.
The Sphynx breed is suffering from HCM and other genetic problems, so not really a good example of a cat I may approve of.
NO other hairless breeds will be accepted by the GCCF, due to its newer policies as regards new breeds and health, the Sphynx had it not been already accepted would not be approved nowadays.
http://www.gccfcats.org/pdf/BreedingPolicy.pdf

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:53 pm 
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That oriental cat is a perfect example of extreme breeding. A trait of a breed is taken so far, that the animal starts to look ridiculous and develop health problems. Have we not learned anything from what has happened in the dog world?

I think it's unbelievable that that cat will be used at stud.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:54 pm 
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I am not getting into a debate. You may continue on your 'soap box' however it will not change my opinion.

Make love and not war :)


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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I don't mean to sound blase but I can see where this post is heading and I would rather not give myself a terminal illness from stressing about different peoples opinions.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I think it's great. It would be boring if we all thought the same thing.

I can see your point but life's too short to give yourself a nose bleed worrying about something that will always happen. I mean, we as the human race are always doing weird things.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:15 pm 
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Paiviaso wrote:
That oriental cat is a perfect example of extreme breeding... Have we not learned anything from what has happened in the dog world.


Agreed ++++

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