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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:11 pm 
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Bengal Kitten
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Joined: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:33 am
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Location: Sweden
That was a nice title. :roll:
I'm new here, and while I don't have and am not going to get a Bengal (sadly, as I adore their looks but their temperament doesn't fit me), I am wondering about some things that I have not gotten answered anywhere else.

I am most likely going to get a Pixie-Bob, which has no wild blood at all so it wouldn't be a problem, but the reason I'm asking this is because I'm curious about the Toyger.

Actual hybrid breeds, like the Bengal and Savannah, are banned in some places.
Here where I live, in Sweden, any breed is legal as long as it's been at least 5 generations since the last wild animal. So Toygers (which have Bengal blood but are not an actual hybrid breed) are definitely legal here.

But I am going to move abroad in the future (don't know what country/location yet, but Australia and Hawai'i are on the list, and they are known for being rather restrictive, since they of course want to protect their native fauna), so if I were to get a Toyger in the future, it would need to be legal. (Other countries on my list include Mexico, Belize, Costa Rica, Panama, etc., so if anyone know more specifically about their laws regarding "hybrid breeds" I would be very grateful.)

I looked around a little on the forum and didn't find much, but I have to quote this:
pylea wrote:
As far as I know, in NY F5 and below are allowed but all bengals are still illegal in NYC.

Now that's about New York and I'm not going there, but forget about that for now.
Assuming that's accurate, that is what I've seen in some other places too... that it sometimes doesn't matter how far away the last wild animal is, hybrid breeds like the Savannah and Bengal are still illegal.

Now then - the Toyger (and for comparison, I can mention the Serengeti and Cheetoh, since they are also based on Bengal-crosses) is not a hybrid itself. Unlike the Savannah and Bengal, people have never crossed wild cats directly into the Toyger, or the Serengeti or Cheetoh.

But if it "doesn't matter how long ago a wild animal was crossed into a Savannah or Bengal" - it would be logical to ban the Toyger, Serengeti and Cheetoh too.
Right?

But what I find (which are rather unreliable sources, I've never got a definite answer for any country except Australia regarding the Toyger, which is why I'm asking here), is that those breeds are never banned together with the hybrid breeds, since they are not regarded actual hybrid breeds.
I guess that would be since they've never crossed actual wild cats into them.

Is that right?
And does anyone know if the Toyger is actually banned anywhere?
(They are definitely legal in Australia though, as I've found a breeder there, but I don't know about the other locations.)


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:55 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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I honestly cant find anything that suggest a Toyger is a bengal mix! It states that several domestic cats were breed to create the stripe look of the Toyger therefore being a pure domestic cat and not a hybrid at all! I dont know if that will help I dont know much about the Toyger but I do know they are not a hybrid and dont have a scale as to what generation the cat would be so that tells me there is no true wild gene! If it were a hybrid it would be on a scale like and F1 Bengal or F1 Savannah! I am really not sure dont take my advice to heart on this I am just putting what I know! I think the best thing would be to contact a breeder and talk to them about it! As far as Bengals being banned in NY I dont think that is true theres a lot of bengal breeders in NY!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 1:58 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Location: Colorado, USA
bkilgore wrote:
I honestly cant find anything that suggest a Toyger is a bengal mix! It states that several domestic cats were breed to create the stripe look of the Toyger therefore being a pure domestic cat and not a hybrid at all! I dont know if that will help I dont know much about the Toyger but I do know they are not a hybrid and dont have a scale as to what generation the cat would be so that tells me there is no true wild gene! If it were a hybrid it would be on a scale like and F1 Bengal or F1 Savannah! I am really not sure dont take my advice to heart on this I am just putting what I know! I think the best thing would be to contact a breeder and talk to them about it! As far as Bengals being banned in NY I dont think that is true theres a lot of bengal breeders in NY!

No, they most definitely did mix in Bengals. And anyway, assuming that was a correct piece of information, it was about NYC, not NY. As far as I know there are no states where Bengals are banned.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 2:10 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Ok I take that back Bengal and all hybrid cats are banned from New York! I dint know that! It metions bengals, savannahs, serengeti and safari cats are banned because they are bengal crossses! So maybe you need to dig a little deeper or just get a cat that doesnt have any history of Bengal in it! A pixie bob is also a hybrid it is a bob cat mix which is a wild cat so it is classified as a hybrid! Again I really dont know the laws of such cats and where they apply but all the cats you have mentioned are hybrids even the Toyger is classified as a hybrid! It states that you have to obtain a permit to own such animals for a lot of places even in the US but you can't even get permits in NY anymore!

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Doesn't really answer your main question ... if you like Bengals but worry about lineage then why not get a Mau or an Occicat? I know there are differences between the breeds but they have the same overall general appearance. There is also the Australian Mist which is further removed in type but still similar. I also have 2 pixie bobs and if your heart is in something spotty and stripy then I feel the PB won't 'do it' for you, although they are fabulous cats! :)

Steven

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:31 pm 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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Just out of curiosity, can i ask what you meant about bengals when you said that their temperament doesn't suit you?


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:10 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 11:18 am
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I've got another question..... although it sounds wonderful to have a cat here and then move to another country with the cat, why dont you work out what country you want to live in and then once you've moved there and settled in, house, job etc (I dont know your circumstances) get a cat then?
I suppose part of my question is why move a cat to another country and have to put them through the quarantine process. If you know you are definitely moving country why not wait?

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:38 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat

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Location: Colorado, USA
BeckyN wrote:
I've got another question..... although it sounds wonderful to have a cat here and then move to another country with the cat, why dont you work out what country you want to live in and then once you've moved there and settled in, house, job etc (I dont know your circumstances) get a cat then?
I suppose part of my question is why move a cat to another country and have to put them through the quarantine process. If you know you are definitely moving country why not wait?

Plans change. I can't speak for others, but there's a small chance I might be living in another country during Dango's lifespan, in which case I would like to bring him with me. An important thing to note is that each country has very different policies about bringing in animals. Some quarantine periods last months, some a matter of hours. It isn't an easy process wherever you do it, but it doesn't always have to be a nightmare of stress.


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:16 am 
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Asian Leopard Cat
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I'm also guessing from the orginal post that it isn't a move that would happen any time soon and that the OP is simply trying to ensure that were they to get a cat and then move to a different country in years to come, they could take their cat with them.

Many people these days end up moving abroad either through their job or because there is a particular place that they have always wanted to move to. However it's hard to know when this change could finally take place for a lot of people so you could be talking 5-10 years before actually making a move. I personally wouldn't leave it that long to not get a cat when i don't know when / if it will definitely be possible to move to another country. So i think it is just as responsible to make sure that the possible places you might move to would accept the pet that you want to choose should it be an issue later.

For example, i have never wanted to live in england all my life. I lived in Oz for 8 months and absolutely loved it there and would love to move back if i got the chance. Similarly i am also tempted to try and make the move to America. I therefore consider it in my life plan to move to a different country eventually, however i want to build up my career / experience here before considering moving esleswhere, as does my partner. This is a lifelong plan and may not even come into effect for another 10-15 years, maybe even longer but perhaps if an opportunity arose maybe earlier! So putting off a cat for that future plan wouldn't make sense to me...better to just know that should it happen, your cat can come with you and you can keep them as comfortable as possible during the process :)


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