It is currently Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:19 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:16 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:52 pm
Posts: 518
Location: Sussex
One of my pets was killed yesterday evening. It was one of my chickens, which free-range in the garden. Despite being home all day, I didn't see or hear anything, but she's gone, and she was the favourite. I am sad, but I expected this might happen one day, I had made my choice not to keep them in a run. And I did walk inside and tell my cats, "This is why you are not allowed out!"

I am the same as you OP, it is hard to feel completely sympathetic for the people who post that their cat is missing or found dead, because but for the fact they let their cat free roam, it wouldn't be missing or dead.

I frequent a non-pet forum that has a pet section, and I think honestly it doesn't occur to most people that you can keep cats indoors. They think its a bit weird/cruel. I remember seeing a woman post, who was terrified something bad was going to happen to her free roaming cat because she knew her children would be devestated, but she knew there was nothing she could do, cats will be cats. I set her straight on that...

If you want to let your cat roam free, that is your choice, but don't be shocked when it gets hit/poisoned/attacked/trapped. *shrug*

Like you OP, I would only let my cat out in very controlled conditions, ie owned all the land the cat would be roaming on, few near neighbours, no near roads, cat fed at home throughout the day and then brought in at night. Even with these I think I still might struggle to let them out :P


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 12:59 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:34 pm
Posts: 496
Location: Bristol, UK
I think one of the main differences between America and the UK which effect whether people let their cats outside is the diversity of predators. Here we don't really have much wildlife that could do damage to a cat, so the people that live out in the country who don't need to worry about cars / their cat being stolen, generally consider it a fairly safe environment.

Whereas alot of areas in America where there are less urban dangers are then full of predators like mountain lions, coyotes, racoons etc as well as animals that carry rabies, something that we in the UK have the luxury of not considering.

Also i've noticed a lot of forum members from america who post about dangerous dogs / poisonings / shootings (!!!) and while i may just have the luxury of not having that in my area and am therefore not aware of it in other places, i am under the impression that such things are not as common in the UK.

"it is hard to feel completely sympathetic for the people who post that their cat is missing or found dead, because but for the fact they let their cat free roam, it wouldn't be missing or dead." - I must admit i am a little shocked and saddened that this is the thoughts of quite a few people on this forum :( it is still someone's pet that they have lost in a horrible accident, just as unfortunate accidents can happen in the home. No environment is truly safe.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Tue Jun 26, 2012 4:35 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:28 am
Posts: 6038
Location: UK
I dont let my 4 bengals roam free although i do walk them on a leash except 1 of my f2 boys who refuses point blank to step outside the front door, bless him... i know in the uk many do let their cats roam free and yes sometimes things happen and when they do i feel so sad for them, i never ever think well they shouldnt have let their cat out, and im too quite saddened by the lack of feeling towards cats owners that get lost/killed.

_________________
Image
Image

Miki & My Beloved Bengals http://mybelovedbengals.blogspot.com/

Shiloh, Darcy, Rudy The Roodster & Ozzy...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:17 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 5:53 am
Posts: 234
I let my cat (not my bengal) but my domestic short hair outside. always have since from when he was a kitten. I don't see it as cruel, or anything like that to let your cat roam free. he goes in and out when he pleases and he is quite happy to do so. i think if you worry too much about something bad happening its not a good thing to do! My cat is nearly 14 years old and the worst thats ever happened to him was he got beaten up by a possum and had a wound that took weeks to heal !! but its the same with children, you can't keep them indoors forever! so what if they fall over and hurt themselves!? same with my cat, he got hurt, but he's still alive and happy as ever! cats like to be outside! i wouldn't want to take that away from them.. and sure, accidents happen but accidents can happen to anybody even you! so would you never let yourself outside in the fear you might get hit by a car? its entirely possible.. !! but you have to live with risks they're always gonna be there, i think its a bit closed minded if you frown upon those who let their cats run the streets to be honest! nothing wrong with it.!

_________________
-


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 8:41 am 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:04 am
Posts: 730
Location: Colorado, USA
The statistics I've seen usually put the average life-span of a cat that is allowed outdoors at 2-3 years. I don't consider that worth it. Also, I consider it irresponsible in terms of your cats safety AND the ecosystem's safety. Cats are an invasive species, and in many areas around the world they have wreaked havoc on the natural ecosystem, often without people even noticing. A single cat on an island once extincted an entire species of bird before his owner could notice and stop him.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:13 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
7Deadly$ins wrote:
The statistics I've seen usually put the average life-span of a cat that is allowed outdoors at 2-3 years. I don't consider that worth it.


I hear this a lot and it is completely untrue. I have heard it said from 2-3 years and up to 5 years... How on earth can you evaluate such a statistic. It depends greatly on where you live in the world for a start. Not all cats are registered with vets for a start and not all deaths of cats are recorded so i simply do not understand how you would gather the information to form such a statistic. Me and my family have had cats all our life. They have always been normal moggie cats untill recently, and also until recently they have all been allowed to roam. I have lost one cat at 10 years old who died as a result of kidney tumours but every single other cat our family have had ave lived passed the age of 17 years. Our family home was on the corner of an estate and a main road and we never lost a cat to the road. In fact, one cat we had used to lovve the white lines in the middle of the road as they would heat up in the sun. He used to lie on them :roll:

7Deadly$ins wrote:
Also, I consider it irresponsible in terms of your cats safety AND the ecosystem's safety. Cats are an invasive species, and in many areas around the world they have wreaked havoc on the natural ecosystem, often without people even noticing. A single cat on an island once extincted an entire species of bird before his owner could notice and stop him.


Again, this is a theory that people who dislike cats or those very against letting cats roam often use as a reason for hating cats or keeping them inside. Whilst there in some truth in some of it it doesn't really affect the whole ecosystem. Wildlife often relocates to areas where there is a better chance of survival. The RSPB in the UK state that cats often pick the weakest of the birds that would not normally survive anyhow.

Depending on where you are in the world, the dangers of letting cats outside varies tremendously. In the UK, as mentioned by someone else, there is little risk from other animals (only really foxes, but they tend to stay clear unless they have cubs or feel threatened). The OP is from the USA where it is more common to keep cats in because of the dangers that are present where you live. Also, there is a lot more people living in apartments/condo's etc where letting cats out is an issue.


I am truly shocked, like Miki and piggle 13, by the comments about lack of sympathy for people who let their cats out and they go missing. Would the same be true for saying to people who feed dry food only that it serves them right if their cat develops kidney problems??

Quote:
....i paid a lot of money for my cat

This is something i hear a lot with regards to letting cats outside. It should make no difference whether your cat is an expensive cat or came to you for free/small fee. The arguments for letting cats outside or not will still stand. Just because a cat cost more or is a pedigree/pure bred does not make it more important than a free/regular moggie.

Quote:
do people in the uk let their dogs run loose??? it should be the same rule for cats....
Cats and dogs are different animals, the same rules should not apply. My vets will only treat dogs if the were a muzzle, should the same rule apply to cats?? It is not fair to make any comparison to different species because they so different and different rules apply.

Quote:
They are also likely to be attacked or killed by dogs, racoons, alligators, other cats, snakes, etc. Mean people are also a huge danger to outdoor cats. They can be poisoned, shot at, or even worse (I won't go into detail on what I've seen/heard). Then there is the less likely, but still possible risk of them being stolen, but that really only applies to pedigree cats. Knowing how common all of these things are here, it just makes me wonder if maybe the environment is just very different in the UK. Because with all these risks I just don't understand why a rescue center would require outdoor access... Interesting how different things are depending on where you're located, huh.


The environmet is so different. Pure and simple, we do not have the smae dangers. I would say we have significantly less dangers here. The road remains a danger, there's poisoning, theft, foxes (but rarely) but really so much less risk than in the US.

brianj12 wrote:
viperkeeper wrote:
I think cigarettes are a bad example because its a certain bad outcome.


Oh I dunno about that. A cat running free in the urban or suburban jungle has as certain an outcome as a two-pack-a-day smoker in my experience. And their demise will probably come far sooner.


I agree, for once :roll: , with viperkeeper. It's not the same. It depends hugely on where you live. As i said, i have not lost a single cat in my past (other than a 10 year old due to kidney tumours) before the age of 17. That is a total of 14 cats that me or my neighbour or close family had. None of them had an early demise and all had happy lives.

Also, 2 years ago i posted that my Bengal was missing, he actually went missing for 5 days. I spent days walking the streets putting up posters and leaflets through doors. Eventually someone resonded to a leaflet and i found him. Max had escaped through an open window when it was quite warm here (we had forgotten the bedroom window was still open) . In essence he was a missing cat though so i shouldn't have sympathy for allowing him to escape????

Indoor only cats have problems also. Obesity is a bigger problem in indoor cats. Boredom is a huge problem. There are a lot of behavioural problems from indoor only cats. You have to be prepared to put in extra work and have enough to help amuse the cats inside. Most people here do that but we have all seem the posts that show that they have a highly active cat and do not put in any extra effort and wonder why their cats is destructive etc.... I'm just balancing it out a little.

Being completely honest, if i was not breeding i would let my cats outside. I have one cat that is completely an utterley bored. He loves attention and wants 100% of it when he's awake. He doesn't want to share and is destructive to get attention. All he wants is to be outside but i cannot take him out all the time. I am going to cat proof the garden so that they can go outside but that is not going to happen for a bit due to us having building work done. I live in a semi rural area. My house is the edge of a small estate, away from the main road. The roads of the estate are speed limited and my house backs onto farmland. My cats love being walked in the neighbouring fields. Max, my bengal walks without his harness as i can trust him not to wander off to much, same goes for Evie. But they love to bounce through the corn and it is wonderful to see them. Bengals look stunning outside and Max does love the outside.

_________________
Lollo
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:40 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:52 pm
Posts: 518
Location: Sussex
lollo2304 wrote:
I am truly shocked, like Miki and piggle 13, by the comments about lack of sympathy for people who let their cats out and they go missing. Would the same be true for saying to people who feed dry food only that it serves them right if their cat develops kidney problems??


Yes. If you choose not to give your cat their natural diet, and feed something that is known to be related to kidney problems, and your cat gets kidney problems, I'm sure why I should say, "poor you."

People can do what they like with their cats, and put them in higher risk situations if they like. But there are obvious potential consequences, and when the consequences occur, I'm not sure why I'm a terrible person for thinking, "Well you knew it could happen, if you were going to get this upset you shouldn't have done it."

I know I would be destroyed if I found one of my cats dead by the side of the road, so they don't go out to the road. Simples.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:46 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:04 am
Posts: 730
Location: Colorado, USA
re: Ecosystems, if one species moves to a "safer" area, it can indeed affect the entire ecosystem. Losing one species can often have a domino effect on all the other organisms in the area.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 12:51 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
7Deadly$ins wrote:
re: Ecosystems, if one species moves to a "safer" area, it can indeed affect the entire ecosystem. Losing one species can often have a domino effect on all the other organisms in the area.


It's not a case of losing a whole species in one area, it is a case of losing a few families of that bird, or mouse etc. I no longer have mice under my decking out back because my cats would hunt under it for them... has that affected the ecosystem??

_________________
Lollo
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:01 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 4:04 am
Posts: 730
Location: Colorado, USA
lollo2304 wrote:
7Deadly$ins wrote:
re: Ecosystems, if one species moves to a "safer" area, it can indeed affect the entire ecosystem. Losing one species can often have a domino effect on all the other organisms in the area.


It's not a case of losing a whole species in one area, it is a case of losing a few families of that bird, or mouse etc. I no longer have mice under my decking out back because my cats would hunt under it for them... has that affected the ecosystem??

This is a very focused view. You aren't the only cat that hunts mice, causing a relocation. It adds up over time. Cats are a very good predator, and we have introduced them into areas where they didn't use to be. Ferals cats, in particular, are an extreme problem in some areas. Endangered bird and rodent programs often butt heads with cat owners quite frequently, because even one cat can do some serious damage if it lives near the habitat of those populations. It isn't always a matter of "the animal will move." More frequently, the animal just dies out. In the grand scheme of things, and on an eco-centric view, cats don't belong in the environment any more than any other invasive species does.

You don't have to lose a whole species to damage a system. The prairie near where I live used to be quite vivid and full of life. However, for whatever reason, we lost the prairie dogs that lived in it. We no longer have hawks or coyotes or many other species as a result. It's "just one" area, and of course all those species are still existent elsewhere. But it adds up. Especially for some of the hawks we lost, this is almost devastating because they are endangered.

Introducing just one species can also have devastating effects. We've lost a lot of local plants, animals, insect life, and so on in my state alone because of the introduction of foreign species. Ecosystems need more time to adapt in these cases, but they don't have that time, so species die. Cats have been introduced to all manner of ecosystems, and in some of those areas, they are part of the problem.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:45 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2008 10:59 am
Posts: 4129
Location: Leicestershire, UK
I do t think you can blame all those things on cats. Humans have a far, far greater impact on the environment and ecosystems than cats ever will.

In the UK feral cats are not a problem. We are not losing species of mice/birds as a result of some people letting cats outside. Everywhere has its own risks/problems.

The indoor/outdoor debate is one that pops up from time to time.

What annoys me is the attitude that people love their cars more because they keep them in.

_________________
Lollo
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:02 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 544
Location: South Yorkshire UK
My personal view is that if someone decided to get a pet they are then responsible for that pet. They are responsible for feeding and caring for the pet and for keeping it safe and they are also responsible for their pets actions. If someone had a dog who was allowed to free roam outside and it went round attacking other neighbourhood dogs and pooing on the neighbours lawn people would find this unacceptable however for some reason many cat owners seem to think that their animal should have different rules and that if their free roaming cat is attacking the neighbourhood pets and defecating on everyone elses lawn then that is the neighbours problem not theirs.

I have had cats all my life, moggies and now bengals, all my childhood cats were allowed to roam free because thats what my family believed cats needed. My first cat lived until the age of 14 when he became unwell and sadly had to be pts, he had been allowed to free roam all his life but never strayed from the garden unless we went for a walk in which case he would follow. We lived in a town with a busy road to the front of the house and he would sunbathe on the drive but never got injured by a car. We then moved to a house in the country 4 miles out of the nearest village and a further 1/2 mile up a dirt track. We rescued a female cat who turned out to be pregnant and had two kittens which we kept, my kitten was a male, he was blue and he had the long haired, squished face look of a pedigree cat even though he was a moggy. He was stolen at about 1 year old along with a few other village cats who all resembled pedigree cats. Our nearest neighbours cat was run over on the very quiet village road. When I moved out Dan and I adopted a black and white moggy kitten from someone at work (for free), we kept her indoors as we lived directly on a very busy road in the middle of a town, Dan also had 2 old cats who had lived indoors all their lives but the two older cats didn't get on with the kitten and she was eventually rehomed to a lady down the road who had lost her dog a few weeks before and was lonely. She is now allowed outside and regularly brings home dead birds as presents. After Tom and Jerry passed away we decided to get involved with breeding bengals and now all my cats live indoors. We will be building an enclosure in the garden once we have sorted it out, it needs turfing etc first and in the meantime we take the cats out on their harness for walks. It always really annoyed me that despite being responsible for my own animals we were often unable to use our garden at our previous house because the neighbour would let his cats free roam and they used our lawn as a toilet, often leaving disgusting stinking runny poo everywhere which he never took them to the vet or did anything about. I was cleaning out litter boxes AND poop-scooping every day, fun :roll:

I think people often get cats because they think they are a low commitment pet and they can just let them go and entertain themselfs out in the world rather than spend the time and effort entertaining them like you do with a dog. An indoor only cat can be just as happy as a pet dog provided you spend the same time and energy entertaining them and providing stimulation so they don't get bored. Bored dogs are far more destructive and have just as many behavioural issues as bored cats. For me the ideal solution is an outside enclosure that allows cats to go outside but also safe guards them and the neighbourhood. If that is not possible then just walk them like you would a dog. That being said I still have every sympathy for people who lose their pets even if it's to taffic etc, and I don't judge anyone for their personal feelings on whether to let their cat out or keep them in.

_________________
Image
http://www.mokumeganebengals.co.uk/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:53 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:40 pm
Posts: 1586
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
On the ecosystem thing. My parents are bird watchers and I've been catching critters my whole life. I live in the same neighborhood I grew up in. We no longer have Gosebeaks or Yellow Finch's one is bright and looks like Da Bird the other is slow. Both WERE cat favorites. I used to be able to catch several Eastern Short Tailed Shrews in a day and garter snakes. The shrews go in the middle of the lawn and make noise so there almost gone. The snakes although killed by cats are probably effaced most by the worst destructive feral species ...humans :evil: On the other hand we now have a problem with a new species of mouse :| If you don't believe one species can effect an ecosystem look at the Doe Doe Bird (sp?) (not cats fault) Its illegal in some states for exterminators to use kill traps for rodents. You have to first identify the species. If its a rare one you are required to catch the entire family and relocate them together. If you live somewhere were cats don't have an impact your lucky learn from others mistakes and stop it before it happens.

On the boredom thing I agree its hard enough to entertain one cat. Several cats I can't imagine. I don't think you should keep them from the outside but do it responsibly. My cat can run and play but its supervised. No one has indoor kids except in the move "Bubble Boy" its a funny movie and one of my favs but listening to the way some people treat their furbaby's I can't help but find it relevant. Maybe you should get a giant bubble for your cats to play in.

I'm going now play devil's advocate defend the type of people who don't have a voice here, like my parents. You won't find them on a cat forum. They live in the middle of nowhere have all the wild animals listed above plus bears and foxes too. We didn't know anyone with cats and didn't like them. I didn't know you could keep a cat indoors until a few years ago. Now I find so many of my neighbors have indoor cats because they come out to talk about cats while I'm walking mine. Story goes moms inside and hears a kitten crying and my dad laughing. She goes outside to find my dad hoseing down a kitten and yells at him to stop. 14yr later they still got the cat Cali. They didn't go buy a cat they didn't want a cat, but they rescued it from certain death. They didn't know anything about cats and when the vet suggested declawing they only declined because it cost too much. Its an outdoor cat and can't possibly have a impact on the wildlife its 14 and never a scratch there are no neighbors to bother. Although I'm agents outdoor cats I don't see the problem in their scenario. One day Cali didn't come home for dinner my mother didn't stop looking till she found her very far away. So I can't get mad at everyone with an outdoor cat. Barn cats are also common, their important to the farmers as a tool not a pet. Although I don't like it its better than traps I guess.

I'm a big advocate for the loc8tor homing tag. But when I was reading reviews one broke my heart. The person gave it 5/5 because it helped her find the remains of her cat after a coyote ate it. She praised the device because it gave her closure and she didn't have to keep looking or worrying about her cat. That's an example of someone not using it how I suggest.

lollo2304, I hope its not the only thing we agree on. I think your intelligent and have more than my 2 years of experience with cats. I never participate in forums but I've taken a liking to this one because of how people's opinions very. Its very opinion driven not like a car forum. But your the first person to hurt my feelings on the internet too. I wish I could have responded before but I'll agree to disagree. But on one thing "I'll argue with anyone who thinks their cat gets better care or more love than my Pouncey". I think you miss understood or took it out of context. He's also the smartest, most handsome, friendliest, best cat ever. Like my girlfriend is the most beautiful girl in the world. It was rhetorical and intended to cause a smile not actually start an argument :wink:

_________________
Image
Best of Pouncey click HERE the ORIGINAL Kamping Kitty!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:17 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat

Joined: Wed Aug 17, 2011 2:53 pm
Posts: 467
Location: UK
lollo2304 wrote:
7Deadly$ins wrote:
The statistics I've seen usually put the average life-span of a cat that is allowed outdoors at 2-3 years. I don't consider that worth it.


I hear this a lot and it is completely untrue. I have heard it said from 2-3 years and up to 5 years... How on earth can you evaluate such a statistic. It depends greatly on where you live in the world for a start. Not all cats are registered with vets for a start and not all deaths of cats are recorded so i simply do not understand how you would gather the information to form such a statistic. Me and my family have had cats all our life. They have always been normal moggie cats untill recently, and also until recently they have all been allowed to roam. I have lost one cat at 10 years old who died as a result of kidney tumours but every single other cat our family have had ave lived passed the age of 17 years. Our family home was on the corner of an estate and a main road and we never lost a cat to the road. In fact, one cat we had used to lovve the white lines in the middle of the road as they would heat up in the sun. He used to lie on them :roll:

7Deadly$ins wrote:
Also, I consider it irresponsible in terms of your cats safety AND the ecosystem's safety. Cats are an invasive species, and in many areas around the world they have wreaked havoc on the natural ecosystem, often without people even noticing. A single cat on an island once extincted an entire species of bird before his owner could notice and stop him.


Again, this is a theory that people who dislike cats or those very against letting cats roam often use as a reason for hating cats or keeping them inside. Whilst there in some truth in some of it it doesn't really affect the whole ecosystem. Wildlife often relocates to areas where there is a better chance of survival. The RSPB in the UK state that cats often pick the weakest of the birds that would not normally survive anyhow.

Depending on where you are in the world, the dangers of letting cats outside varies tremendously. In the UK, as mentioned by someone else, there is little risk from other animals (only really foxes, but they tend to stay clear unless they have cubs or feel threatened). The OP is from the USA where it is more common to keep cats in because of the dangers that are present where you live. Also, there is a lot more people living in apartments/condo's etc where letting cats out is an issue.


I am truly shocked, like Miki and piggle 13, by the comments about lack of sympathy for people who let their cats out and they go missing. Would the same be true for saying to people who feed dry food only that it serves them right if their cat develops kidney problems??

Quote:
....i paid a lot of money for my cat

This is something i hear a lot with regards to letting cats outside. It should make no difference whether your cat is an expensive cat or came to you for free/small fee. The arguments for letting cats outside or not will still stand. Just because a cat cost more or is a pedigree/pure bred does not make it more important than a free/regular moggie.

Quote:
do people in the uk let their dogs run loose??? it should be the same rule for cats....
Cats and dogs are different animals, the same rules should not apply. My vets will only treat dogs if the were a muzzle, should the same rule apply to cats?? It is not fair to make any comparison to different species because they so different and different rules apply.

Quote:
They are also likely to be attacked or killed by dogs, racoons, alligators, other cats, snakes, etc. Mean people are also a huge danger to outdoor cats. They can be poisoned, shot at, or even worse (I won't go into detail on what I've seen/heard). Then there is the less likely, but still possible risk of them being stolen, but that really only applies to pedigree cats. Knowing how common all of these things are here, it just makes me wonder if maybe the environment is just very different in the UK. Because with all these risks I just don't understand why a rescue center would require outdoor access... Interesting how different things are depending on where you're located, huh.


The environmet is so different. Pure and simple, we do not have the smae dangers. I would say we have significantly less dangers here. The road remains a danger, there's poisoning, theft, foxes (but rarely) but really so much less risk than in the US.

brianj12 wrote:
viperkeeper wrote:
I think cigarettes are a bad example because its a certain bad outcome.


Oh I dunno about that. A cat running free in the urban or suburban jungle has as certain an outcome as a two-pack-a-day smoker in my experience. And their demise will probably come far sooner.


I agree, for once :roll: , with viperkeeper. It's not the same. It depends hugely on where you live. As i said, i have not lost a single cat in my past (other than a 10 year old due to kidney tumours) before the age of 17. That is a total of 14 cats that me or my neighbour or close family had. None of them had an early demise and all had happy lives.

Also, 2 years ago i posted that my Bengal was missing, he actually went missing for 5 days. I spent days walking the streets putting up posters and leaflets through doors. Eventually someone resonded to a leaflet and i found him. Max had escaped through an open window when it was quite warm here (we had forgotten the bedroom window was still open) . In essence he was a missing cat though so i shouldn't have sympathy for allowing him to escape????

Indoor only cats have problems also. Obesity is a bigger problem in indoor cats. Boredom is a huge problem. There are a lot of behavioural problems from indoor only cats. You have to be prepared to put in extra work and have enough to help amuse the cats inside. Most people here do that but we have all seem the posts that show that they have a highly active cat and do not put in any extra effort and wonder why their cats is destructive etc.... I'm just balancing it out a little.

Being completely honest, if i was not breeding i would let my cats outside. I have one cat that is completely an utterley bored. He loves attention and wants 100% of it when he's awake. He doesn't want to share and is destructive to get attention. All he wants is to be outside but i cannot take him out all the time. I am going to cat proof the garden so that they can go outside but that is not going to happen for a bit due to us having building work done. I live in a semi rural area. My house is the edge of a small estate, away from the main road. The roads of the estate are speed limited and my house backs onto farmland. My cats love being walked in the neighbouring fields. Max, my bengal walks without his harness as i can trust him not to wander off to much, same goes for Evie. But they love to bounce through the corn and it is wonderful to see them. Bengals look stunning outside and Max does love the outside.


So well said Lollo, I totally agree with everything you've added here. I was trying to avoid this thread as it gets so heated, but some of the remarks that have been made really do need some kind of feed back. I also think that Brian's remark about smokers and outdoor cats, whilst on the one hand, is totally incomparable to my mind, on the other hand is actually quite ironic. I think I've mentioned on here before of an old aquaintance I knew who had 2 siamese cats in tiny stuffy flat who was a very heavy smoker.. There is some evidence to suggest that cats who are kept in smoke filled environments are more prone to certain tumors and can suffer from smoking related illnesses. I felt so sorry for them as they never got to breath fresh air, just horibble stale smokey atmosphere. I know this is not the case for everyone who keeps there cats indoors but there are indoor hazards too. I also think the comment about paying a lot of money for your cat is just crazy. I love my cats and didn't pay a penny for them, even if I did it would have no bearing on how I would feel if either one were involved in an accident. There is a much higher risk of a pedigree cat being stolen, which is often my dilemma when considering getting one and I can totally understand some peoples decision to keep there cats as indoor only animals, but I also think that this comes at a cost to the cat too. Mine would go mad if kept in all the time..that's not say I don't worry about them or reconsider the choice to allow them freedom from time to time, but that's my worry why should my cats pay for that?

_________________
Lily
Image


Last edited by lilypie on Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:35 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: why??
PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 6:18 pm 
Offline
Asian Leopard Cat
User avatar

Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 3:11 am
Posts: 685
Location: FL, USA
ailurophile wrote:
i think if you worry too much about something bad happening its not a good thing to do!

Some of us just can't "turn off" the worry switch. I for one know my cats mean the world to me, so yeah I will worry about them no matter what. They aren't just cats to me, they are my babies, so I'll do whatever I can to protect them. If parents never worried about their kids, there would probably be a lot more dead/missing kids out there...

Quote:
My cat is nearly 14 years old and the worst thats ever happened to him was he got beaten up by a possum and had a wound that took weeks to heal !!

That, to me, is totally unacceptable. It may be ok with you that your cat was attacked by a wild animal and left with a severe injury that "took weeks to heal", but something like that would absolutely devastate me. One of my cats (Eevee) used to be an outside "stray" cat before she became mine - a neighbor moved away and left their cats behind. I got her spayed, vaccinated, tested, microchiped and fed her but we really didn't want another cat at the time so she stayed outside... Well one day she showed up with a nasty puncture wound in her hind leg and I felt sick to my stomach with guilt. Needless to say I got her treated, she healed, and never went outside again. She does not beg to go outside, even though she grew up outside. She knows how good she has it here.

Quote:
but its the same with children, you can't keep them indoors forever! so what if they fall over and hurt themselves!? same with my cat, he got hurt, but he's still alive and happy as ever!

Cats are NOT the same as children. At least you can teach children to stay out of the road, not talk to strangers, and not fight with other neighborhood kids. You obviously can't teach a cat to do any of these things.

Quote:
cats like to be outside! i wouldn't want to take that away from them..

Not ALL cats like to be outside. Of my 6, 4 of them DO NOT like being outside without me. If I have everyone out on the screened-in patio with me and I come in the house for a minute, most of them nervously follow. They aren't even comfortable being out there alone. None of my cats are shy inside. I've tried to slowly introduce Loki walking outside with me on the harness but he freaks out and howls he gets so nervous, though he loves walking around in his harness indoors (I can have him on his harness at the vet, but to get from the building to the car I have to put him in a carrier because he gets so scared). None of my cats ever show a desire to go out, because they've been lovingly raised as indoor pets, they don't even know what it would be like out there. They have everything they need and I can confidently say they are very happy, healthy, and not at all bored.

Quote:
and sure, accidents happen but accidents can happen to anybody even you! so would you never let yourself outside in the fear you might get hit by a car? its entirely possible.. !!

Once again, this is the same scenario as with the children. I think most of us have enough sense not to dash out in front of a car, or lay in the middle of the road without moving fast enough when a car comes. Cats obviously don't have as much sense, otherwise there wouldn't be SO many that get hit. You just can't compare the two..

Quote:
but you have to live with risks they're always gonna be there, i think its a bit closed minded if you frown upon those who let their cats run the streets to be honest! nothing wrong with it.!

It's not close-minded, it's our opinion. Maybe in your opinion, there's nothing wrong with subjecting your cat to all those extra dangers, but to me (and many others) it's just not a risk worth taking. If somebody asks me why I don't let my cats outside, literally the first thing that pops into my head is "because I love them WAY too much". I want to keep them as safe and healthy as possible, and I can't possibly do that if I let them run off to fend for themselves.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by meemonkey