Hi from a rural Island in Canada!

My 5 month old kitten is not a Bengal, but an F7 Savannah. My reason for wanting to join a UK based group dedicated to Bengals is because I have found it helpful reading the detailed discussions here about peoples experience allowing Bengals free or limited access to the outdoors, and also how and at what age they were introduced to this. As Savannahs are said to have a similar temperament to Bengals I have been trying to draw comparisons.

It seems almost no one with a Savannah ever allows them to come and go as they please, and I read lots of dire warnings about how if they are ever allowed outside, no matter how safe the area is, it will result in tragedy. However, all the actual tragedies I read about are stories of Savannah cats who manage to accidentally escape with no previous experience of the area around their homes, which is of course very dangerous for any indoor only cat. As I spend a lot of time in my yard and have a large garden and orchard the chances are my cat will manage to slip out from time to time. I have built a heavy screen door so the entryway to the back door now has a double door and there will be a catio off the front porch, but as I live in a really safe area for cats, eventually it will probably be safer to give my cat a gradual introduction to the yard so he has some basic survival skills. For example, there is a mile of uninhabited forest behind my house and it would be a serious hazard if a scared inexperienced cat went too far up a tree back there, before they have a chance to learn they need to plan to get down while going up. Which in my experience most figure out pretty quick given a chance to learn on a harness first. But once he discovers the great outdoors on a harness, I will probably have a hard time refusing him if he is really determined to go out. The area I live is reasonably low risk for cats. Both local vets have told me letting a cat out in my area should not be a problem, so I am not being irresponsible to be considering this as an option. I am hoping peoples experience with Bengals might help to inform my descions about how to best keep my late generation Savannah cat reasonably safe and happy.

And also I wonder if there is some differences between Bengals and late generation Savannahs that would cause them to have different experiences if they are allowed to be free roaming...

So I hope it is a OK if I participate in some of the discussions here, and ask some questions even though my cat is a Savannah, and not a Bengal!

Welcome to our forum. While this is a forum for bengals, many of our members have other breeds and we are happy to have anyone join in the discussions.

The dilemna of letting one's cat outside to roam free is a tough call. You are either for or against it. Many in the UK feel it is fine to let their bengals roam free as there are no natural predators. That may not be the same in Canada. Regardless, there are dangers in letting your cat or any breed roam free. Since Savannah's are larger than your normal cat, many people when spotting one, believe it is a wild cat. And some have been killed by wildlife officers who believe it to be a wild cat and dangerous to people.

Outside of that, you have people who may want to steal your cat. Dogs that attack the cat. Other cats that attack. Cars that may run over your cat, mean spirited people who want to hurt your cat. It is really up to an owner to decide the risk they want to take. Both Savannahs and Bengals are not cheap and if one wants to risk the investment, then it is fine.

While your baby may be an F7, the Savannah breed has not been around very long, and it appears the breeders have worked hard to get to the F7 while most bengal breeders try to keep the F generations down. All the F7 means is that there is less wild blood from the serval in your cat, but there is STILL wild blood. My F9 bengal has 13.77% wild blood.

In the end, a much easier route would be to train your kitty to walk on a harness and leash and go for long walks. Get your neighbors familiar with your baby so if they see your kitty, they know it is your kitty. Microchip your kitty. Make sure your yard is escape proof. The fact is that only about 50% of cats that go missing are ever recovered.

Savannah cats are stunning creatures ... I'm sure you want to make sure you enjoy your baby for many, many years. Thus ... no outside visits without supervision -- and many times that is in the breeder's contract.

Hi Sherry Thanks for your reply and welcome and for explaining your concerns for the safety of cats that are allowed outdoors.

The vast majority of those concerns are not really applicable to where I live, though I appreciate that they are in many places. I live on a rural island with a lot of sheep farms and no predators that normally bother cats, no feral or un-neutered cats, very little traffic for miles, and nice neighbors who all know each other and each others cats. We also have a robust population of non indigenous rats and rabbits so hunting cats are appreciated here. I have lived in this neighborhood for over 35 years and there is about the same number of cats as people who ride bicycles and the people who ride bicycles have had at least twice as many serious or deadly incidents as the outdoor free roaming cats. In all this time there has been no cases of a cat being injured by a dog or any other animal. Recently a cat no one had ever seen before got hit by a car about 3/4 of a mile from here but that is the first time this has ever happened and I have to wonder if the cat had been recently abandoned and was disorientated. Both vets on the island have told me that secondary poisoning is extremely rare. Outdoor cats are the norm here.

And I do not believe keeping a cat in against it's will is risk free. They frequently do crazy and dangerous things to get out, from door dashing when the door is being closed, to jumping out windows to trying to squeeze through a space they don't fit. And as previously mentioned cats that accidentally get out with no experience are at much higher risk than a cat who has been gradually introduced to the outdoors. I also have concerns that cats with a strong and frustrated hunting drive may be more likely to ingest weird stuff they are substituting for prey and then getting GI blockages.

Which is to say, I don't think it is correct when weighing risks to assume the risks facing an indoor only cat are zero, and while in many situations the risks faced by an outdoor cat far outweigh those faced by an indoor only cat, in this area they are probably about even and possibly leaning towards an indoor only cat being at greater risk.

That being said, so far my kitten has been indoor only, (except for a few brief supervised excursions onto the soon to be entirely cat proof open air front porch). But what I am seeing when he is out there is a bit of a concern. When he is exposed to the smells out there it seems to trigger his wilder instincts, to the degree his bond with me seems far outweighed, and if this is going to be the trend, I think it could lead to trouble I prefer to avoid..

According to my vet, and other sources, generally speaking an F7 Savannah cat should be not much different than an active domestic cat with a normally strong hunting drive, but there is individual differences...

Savannah cats that are more dilute wild blood (F5 and less) are rarely larger than ordinary large domestic cats... Though there is exceptions. But my kitten is noticeably purebred, we do have some bed and breakfasts in the area, so theft would be my main concern. That and just wandering far enough away people may not know him and where he lives, and not make an effort to return him...

This is not my first experience with a Savannah cat and a few months ago I was devastated to have an 8 month old F8 kitten die from what was most probably dry FIP. Whatever it was it had nothing to do with him being allowed outside...This kitten had free access to the outdoors starting at about 5 months, after a month of being gradually introduced to my yard on a leash, and although he did have a passion for hunting, he was also extremely attached to me and never went far. As far as I know he never went further than the next door neighbors yards, but maybe that would have changed if he had a chance to grow up.

My new kitten came to me a couple months older, has only been with me a couple weeks and he seems attached to me until he gets out on the porch...at which point I seem to become the annoying restrainer and nothing more. Which could be a problem..

One thing I know is once a Savannah or Bengal gets a taste of being outside with a certain degree of freedom, reeling them back in is going to be a miserable process, and I did learn from some mistakes the first time round. The only door I am currently using now has a secondary door to prevent door dashing. My last kitten repeatedly got out accidentally way before I planned to let him out, and as the plan was to eventually let him out, after a month of this and nearly crushing him in the middle of a door dash, I let him have his own way.

But as I spend a lot of time outside, chances are there will be accidents and it may not be possible or practical to keep my new kitten in for the rest of his life, and even a whole year could be difficult. For his own safety he should at least be familiar with the yard, with other non aggressive cats in the area, and how to get back to the house. I think I can teach this using a harness, and I am hoping if I carry him out the door in a covered cat carrier and let him back into the house through a window he will learn this but without putting 2 and 3 together and start meowing at the door (or window?)

Besides the catio off the front porch I am in he process enclosing the area under my house and hope to have it so he can hunt the rodents living under there and have an enclosed circular route all the way around the house, with a few alternative routes through outdoor areas. If he is usually content with that and going out on a harness then that will be his life. But if he smells and hears things on the other side of the enclosure and spends a lot of time wanting out, I will not put him through that and eventually, after a gradual introduction to my yard I would probably try and give him more freedom. Maybe by making him wear a harness and tracking device... At least until he is old enough to have a reliable settled routine.

The questions I would like to ask in some of the discussions about Bengals with outdoor access are mainly about peoples experiences allowing Bengal cats outside, and if in retrospect there are ways to predict beforehand what personalities are more likely to roam or pick fights with neighboring cats, or get obsessed with wanting more freedom, and if waiting till a cat is older, (over a year) or much older (over 3 years) before allowing them full freedom is more or less likely to produce a cat that stays close to home and out of trouble... I know statistically younger cats are more likely to be injured in an accident, but I am not sure whether that is youth or inexperience, and if an older cat may be at a disadvantage if they need to figure out basic outdoor life skills and territory they did not learn in their youth.

I want my cat to live as full and happy a life as possible and want to avoid problems if I can. And there seems to be a lot more people with experience with outdoor Bengals than Savannahs...

Thanks for having me here!

I can tell you my experience, which most people here already know. I got my bengal when he was 6 years old. He lived four doors down from me since he was 12 weeks old, but I never saw him. I was feeding a stray for years and he disappeared one night. I was still putting food out in case he returned and Raiden appeared on my deck to eat it. I thought he was a bobcat, actually. He was easy to befriend and he just started hanging around. He was limping one day so I took him to the vet and they found a microchip and Raiden was their patient. Long story short -- the owner gave Raiden to me. According to the vet records, Raiden had been in several times with abscesses from cat fights. In fact, his ear is torn due to one. While in my care and after the owner said he could stay at my house, I let Raiden out with a collar. He returned 20 minutes later, minus the collar and his eyes looking funny. I ran a warm wash cloth over his eyes and blood was all over the washcloth, so rushed him to the vet -- another cat fight.

Right there and then, I decided he could not roam free so bought a harness and leash and took him for walks. We also built a 12'x12' enclosure on our deck that he can access 24/7. To this day, this has not been enough and he still wants to run outside. He has escaped many times, but I've always managed to grab him when he stops to smell a shrub. I know if he gets out, at least he knows his way home -- if he can manage to avoid injury to make it home.

I equate my bengal with a 2-year old toddler. You would not allow your child to go outside any time he or she wanted to just because it isn't right to keep them inside -- would you? Just like a child has no knowledge of the dangers out there by him or herself, it's the same with a cat.

I do have another cat -- a moggie that is owned by a neighbor three blocks away. He ran away from home 2-1/2 years ago and found me. Tried to return him several times but they could not keep him in the house--he had always been an outdoor cat. Now he is with me and spends many hours inside my home, but when he wants out, he scratches and tries to tear open the door, so I open it and let him out. I hate doing it, but that's the life he had always known and he is still not MY cat.

Yes, cats are great hunters -- and that's another problem. There are diseased animals that cats love to eat. The moggie is always chasing little mice around. He plays with them, bats them in the air, tortures them and then eats them. Yuk!!!

In the end, the decision is yours. If you feel comfortable in letting an F7 purebred Savannah run free, by all means do it. I just have little sympathy when one comes on here and posts that their cat is missing or has been injured or killed after we've had this discussion.

Thank you for sharing your own experience and beliefs Sherry. I have been using the search feature and have been reading many posts by you on the subject of cats that are allowed free access to the outdoors, and you are obviously very passionate about this. I probably would be too if I had seen even a 1/4 as many tragedies as you have. However, I think I have clearly explained that outside cats in my area very rarely have problems like you describe in your many posts. So I am not sure why you are continuing to promote what makes sense in a totally different situation. Here the problems encountered by outdoor cats are pretty much entirely caused by the occasional aggressive and territorial pet cat with an irresponsible owner who is slow to restrain their problem cat. And over the years there have been a couple in the neighborhood. One was an unneutered free roaming Bengal. But these 2 cats that were problems are no longer out and about, or are neutered and no longer aggressive. From what I read and see locally, 90 percent of neutered males cats loose that strong territorial aggression that can lead to the type of fights that break skin. So this is usually not a problem, though I am under the impression Bengals can be more aggressive about territory than most. And I totally agree with your descion to restrain the Bengal you took responsibility for as you describe him as being aggressive and compelled to pick fights.

I have read many discussions online about the risks of allowing cats to go outside, and have seen others make the comparison you do to a cat being the equivalent of a 2 year old child. This may be an accurate comparison if the cat is in a artificial man made environment, with elements it has never worked out a way to co-exist with, but IMO it makes no sense if the cat is in a natural environment.

Yes there is risks in allowing a cat to roam outside. And in some places these risks are much greater than others. If your point is that all pet owners should avoid any unnecessary risk, by the same logic it would be safer if everyone kept their cats crated within their house at all times, and if human children were expected to fulfill all their social needs watching TV indoors, as any real life social interaction carries risks that responsible pet and human parents could avoid. There is a point where a singular goal looses sight of general context and the bigger picture and becomes extremist. And I think some indoor only advocates are well past that point.

I also explained I am concerned the risks my cat will face if it is indoor only, may, in my situation outweigh the risks of allowing it access outside. The internet is full of tragic stories of indoor only cats that have been lost injured or killed when they accidentally get out, do something crazy to get out, or that in their boredom have ingested something that had blocked their GI tract. But I would never suggest I had no sympathy for someone who’s indoor only cat fell victim to the risks of their decision, because I understand every descion has risks and benefits and for the most part we all try to do what is best given our own circumstances.

Anyways, I do appreciate you sharing your personal perspective and opinion, and I really hope others with different experiences, will share theirs as well.

Sounds like you live in a very unique environment. My family lost 4 cats while I grew up, none of them lived to the age of 10, but rather than dwelling on anecdotes about this, I think statistics are more important.

http://www.catster.com/lifestyle/how-lo ... alth-facts

"Because there are so many more unpredictable variables, the numbers are generally not good, and cat lifespan ranges much more widely, anywhere from three to 10 years. The average cat lifespan outdoors is 5.625 years.
"

For many people in the US, whether you adopt from a shelter or purchase from a breeder, you actually have to sign something that says you won't keep your cat outside, and if you don't have to sign such a document, it is at least part of the screening process to determine whether they will release a cat to you. So it's not even necessarily simply a matter of a belief system or personal preference.

I doubt there is much difference between Bengals and Savannahs in terms of them being outside, except for one thing... Savannahs are much much much rarer, thus may be more heavily coveted by knowledgeable cat lovers.

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The little monsters 3

I agree that our individual stories and experiences can't be applied to every situation, but as the variables are complex a lot depends on how the sample population is selected. For example, the info below would seem to suggest there is not that much difference in life expectancy for outdoor cats in low risk areas, especially as this stat showing a roughly 20% lower life expectancy is an average and includes cats in high risk areas together with cats in low risk areas. So presumably an outdoor cat in a low risk area would on average live maybe 1 year less than an indoor cat.

https://www.vetinfo.com/indoor-outdoor- ... tancy.html
"A pet that spends more time outdoors may live on average 2 to 3 years less than a cat that lives exclusively indoors. In addition, unexpected accidents may end an outdoor cat's life at any time.

Stray and feral cats live significantly less. On average, a stray cat lives 5 years if he is in a community of cats and 2 to 3 years if he lives by himself. This is due to unbalanced nutrition and lack of veterinary treatment and vaccinations. In addition, feral cats may get killed while fighting other wild animals."


And this from one of the main pet insurance providers in the UK- who would probably know what the stats showed for the risks facing well cared for insured pets
https://www.petplan.co.uk/blog/debate-s ... t-indoors/
"Yet real scientific evidence that keeping a cat inside prolongs its life is decidedly thin on the ground."

I have done a lot of reading on this and think there is real risks to cats and some areas have them all and some areas have close to none, but there is nothing particularly dangerous in itself about being outside. It is the risk factors a cat is likely to encounter outside that is the potential problem. And these differ place to place and with the personality of the cat. A cat that roams to places no one knows it or picks fights will always be at a higher risk than one who doesn't.

I do live in a unique area. One way it is unique is that there is no longer any feral cats and 5 times more people looking to adopt ordinary kittens than there is available kittens. The SPCA has been very successful in it's spay and neuter programs and 2/3 of the available kittens are pure bred and usually either Bengals, Savannahs, or Ragdolls. So these cats are not that rare around here, and in my opinion Bengals are more obviously beautiful and exotic.... One gorgeous free roaming Bengal lives 1/2 a mile up the road, right close to the road, and he has not been stolen, though he did choose to move in with someone who was not his owner and there was nothing anyone could do about it! He seems to be fine as a free roaming cat now he is neutered. Unless cats are special needs the local SPCA has no stipulations that cats need to be indoors only, and as this is not usually seen as a substantial risk by local vets, if our local SPCA insisted on indoor only adopters, that would be ideological and not based in any reasonable concern for the well being of a cat. And as has been mentioned in other discussions, in the UK many animal welfare organizations make someone agree they will not force a cat to be indoor only. So just because the US does this doesn't mean that is seen as the best thing to do in every area...

Anyways, it is helpful to know that peoples experience with free roaming Bengals is likely to be similar in many ways to free roaming Savannahs. One way I think the breeds do differ is maybe Savannahs tend to be a less inclined to be territorial than Bengals, as by nature they are less shy and more social cats...? Maybe?

I didn't read all of the posts here because it's a lot of words. Where I live I see Hawks on an almost daily basis and there are a lot of open areas ( which is why I see hawks on a daily basis, they wouldn't be there if there was no food ) and I know there are falcons and eagles in the area ( they can identify a cat sized object from over 2 miles away ) and have even seen Coyotes run across the road in front of my place at night, so I wouldn't let mine out.

Whether the cat is an exotic like a Bengal or Savannah is somewhat irrelevant if not detrimental to their survival outside. They are domestic cats and despite them being instinctual predators they are not raised with the survival instinct required to live in an environment where they are not top of the food chain, especially in a mixed urban/nature environment. Both Savannah and Bengal have been bred and raised for social behaviour, while yes they have their base abilities such as jumping, climbing, stalking and speed, they lack the behavioural instincts required to survive in an unforgiving natural environment.

As for which one lives longer putting aside premature deaths due to the environment ( cats outside are 100% more likely to get hit by a car or train than an indoor one ), being outside exposes them to a much wider variety of infections and increases the chances of moderate to severe injury. If that injury incapacitates them in any way, it further increases the risk of it being fatal.

This forum is for sharing opinions when asked for one. Millions of cats are allowed outside. It's a choice the owner makes. There is nothing wrong with cats who enjoy the outdoors for a short while and are back inside safe and sound. I'm passionate about this because of the cats we had growing up. I would find them in the middle of the road hit by a car. A couple of months ago, a stray a neighbor was feeding was hit by a car and laying dead on the grass. I've had strays that I've been feeding who have vanished, and a gorgeous orange and white long-haired cat that I fed was found on the side of the road on my way to work one day. I could barely contain myself.

But, not every cat owner feels the same way. I don't like the fact that this other DSH cat I take care of spends most of the night outside and I have coyotes in the woods behind my house. We have a beautiful three-room cat house on our deck that he enjoys staying in. I worry about him every night, but he refuses to stay inside. Currently, he is laying on the top platform of a cat tree in the dining room, safe and sound.

If you were not concerned about this, you would have not posted this question. But, the decision is yours, not mine to make. I would simply make sure that you have supervised your kitty for several weeks to make sure your baby gets familiar with the surroundings so he/she knows where to return.

My concerns for your area:

1. Theft... Some people see spots and they see dollar signs.

2. Cat fights... Bengals and Savannahs can be highly territorial and it can be YOUR cat who is the problem child.

3. Disease... From other cats in the area or mice they eat (my breeder had cat he sold to another person die from a disease it caught from rodents) or if someone has rat poison then the cat eats the mice and gets sick.

4. Cars... Smaller chance but a chance... Cats don't need to be disoriented to get run over... Sometimes they get spooked and run right into the car.

5. Winter... Well don't think it's warm enough for these tropical guys there part of the year?


I keep mine indoor but walk them in the warm seasons. I have no real problem with them being overly persistant as long as they get their walks and they are not too hard to catch of they try and sneak. It's easier since they don't have warm under coat they want nothing to do with the outside in winter.

Its a personal decision for each person.. My parents live in the country on 40 acres and let all their moggies out and some have lived to mid 20s and others life has been cut short when they wander too far and find road although that is rare.. Two in 30 some years that I know of.

I'm curious as to what part of Canada you live in. I an an expat from rural Ontario. We let the farm cats roam but they would occasionally disappear. I was always a bit concerned about raptors. They will swoop down and pick up a cat. I saw them pick up large rabbits and fly off with them.

We had red-tailed hawks, and ospreys. There were also coyotes in the area, not to mention hunters, who might mistake your kitty for a novel trophy.

Good luck! Be safe.

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~ Kyenta

I agree that theft is a concern, especially as so many people seem to believe allowing a cat it’s freedom is a form of neglect and negligent people who loose their cats do not deserve sympathy.

As for disease, the possibility of secondary poisoning, attacks by birds of prey, and getting hit by cars, I think the local vets I have talked to would know best whether these things are a substantial risk and as I mentioned in my first post, in my area I have been told they are not. I understand low risk is not no risk, but there is a limit to how much quality of life I am willing to deny a cat to protect them from something that is unlikely to ever happen.

I have the impression that Bengals tend to be a lot more solitary and territorial than Savannahs, but part of the gradual introduction to the outdoors I did with my last kitten was keeping close tabs on how he interacted with neighboring cats and this included frequent conversations with neighbors to make sure they were not seeing anything of concern. If a cat is inclined to pick a fights I think it is the cat guardians responsibility to do everything they can to prevent this, including keeping the aggressive cat indoors only. We do not have any feral cats in this area so it is easier to know what to expect.

As long as a cat has the option to be somewhere warm I don't think cold should be a problem, and it is helpful to hear that cooler weather helps these cats be happy with short walks!

As I said in my first post I live on an island in Western Canada. The surrounding water sort of acts like a fence so no coyotes.

I am mainly concerned about roaming and was hoping to learn if Bengals that are kept inside until they mature are less likely to roam... Or if they will be more vulnerable and never learn basic survival skills and respect for other cats territory, that would be quickly learned by a younger cat. But so much of that probably depends on the individual cat maybe it is not something other peoples experiences will answer.

And as my kitten never really wants to follow me outside and won't even stay out on the enclosed porch if I am not out there too, all my concerns may be irrelevant. As I get to know this kitten better, I am beginning to think he may be totally happy to stay indoors and the enclosure and walk ways around the perimeter of the house I am building for him, may be all the outside adventure he can handle!

Main advice I have... I would never let a Bengal or Savannah out in winter. They start shivering in minutes and getting wet would be a death sentance. So make it a summer only thing if you do it.

My Bengal would mostly turn her nose up in winter to going out when i showed her it is still winter outside and opened the door but every so often she would go outside and start shivering shortly after but not want to come in so i would pick her and make her come back. Sometimes the wonders of the outside world trump common sense.

These guys are not at all made to deal with winter.. They don't get the thick under coats.. They might as well be a naked Sphinx cat. Weather can turn sour quickly and it would be a death sentence in my opinion.

My Raiden insists on his daily walks -- even in 19 degree temps, even in snow, even in the rain. He doesn't seem to be bothered by the cold or wetness. Granted, he is not allowed free access outside except in his enclosure and he doesn't get a winter coat per se.